Zappa 0 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) If the fans use their common sense then the police won't need to use theirs. Simple. It's not simple at all Gav. There's no specific list of what can be deemed 'offensive' to a 'reasonable person'. There's no definition of specifically what songs and chants can be deemed offensive, sectarian, threatening or otherwise. The government refuse to tell the fans SPECIFICALLY what's ok and what's not under their fucked up new legislation and the fannies like Les Grey that run Strathclyde's plod won't be drawing up a list to clarify the situation for the fans either. That leaves fans not knowing whether they could get a criminal record for getting caught singing a song or songs they've sung for years and haven't been told NOT to sing. How the fcuk is that "simple"?? Edited December 15, 2011 by Zappa 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) The last part was tongue in cheek Zappa. Everything has teething problems to start with. Edited December 15, 2011 by Gazza_8 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The last part was tongue in cheek Zappa. No probs Gav, but it's pretty clear that the new legislation isn't clear to either fans or to the Police. Les Grey and other cops trotting out the "use your common sense" line isn't good enough when innocent fans could end up with criminal records that could ruin their careers. Fans need to know EXACTLY what they are allowed to sing and chant (or not as the case may be), but neither the government or the police are clear on the matter, never mind stewards. We're not talking about teething problems, we're talking about yet another poorly defined law that's completely open to interpretation as well as breaching freedom of speech rights. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) No probs Gav, but it's pretty clear that the new legislation isn't clear to either fans or to the Police. Les Grey and other cops trotting out the "use your common sense" line isn't good enough when innocent fans could end up with criminal records that could ruin their careers. Fans need to know EXACTLY what they are allowed to sing and chant (or not as the case may be), but neither the government or the police are clear on the matter, never mind stewards. We're not talking about teething problems, we're talking about yet another poorly defined law that's completely open to interpretation as well as breaching freedom of speech rights. Zappa, it'll take a good while before the police come to terms with it themselves. Fans using their common sense is paramount too though. Right now, I kind of know what songs and words Rangers fans shouldn't be singing or saying. The fans and the police need to think about their action before carrying them out. I don't think the decision to decide what words and songs is up to the police. The politicians wanted to bring this new legislation in so they need to decide. Whatever they decide the police will carry out. Edited December 15, 2011 by Gazza_8 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Zappa, it'll take a good while before the police come to terms with it themselves. Aye and I wonder how many fans will get fines, criminal records and a holiday in the klink for saying a "bad" word or two while the police and courts come to terms with a shambolic, undefined and non-specific piece of legislation rushed through parliament by idiots? Fans using their common sense is paramount too though. It's easy enough to say that, but it's now extremely difficult for fans to know what they can sing or chant. Right now, I kind of know what songs and words Rangers fans shouldn't be singing or saying. I don't think you do because there aren't any clear definitions for fans to stick to. Yes, there's some obvious stuff (which I assume are the things you're thinking), but there's also a lot of grey areas. The fans and the police need to think about their action before carrying them out. Again, neither the fans or the police actually know what's now deemed an offence and illegal under the new bill because the guidelines (which I've read thoroughly) aren't specific enough. If the government and police want to target football fans for so-called offensive behaviour, they have to tell the fans specifically what's now deemed offensive under the new laws. I don't think the decision to decide what words and songs is up to the police. The politicians wanted to bring this new legislation in so they need to decide. Whatever they decide the police will carry out. Gav, let's be clear about this (and I've told you this before), Strathclyde police are the ones who told the government to introduce these new laws. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Aye and I wonder how many fans will get fines, criminal records and a holiday in the klink for saying a "bad" word or two while the police and courts come to terms with a shambolic, undefined and non-specific piece of legislation rushed through parliament by idiots? Again, if the fans think before singing or saying something then they won't be fined, a criminal record or spend a night in the jail. Yes there are grey areas but if common sense is implied then it'll go a long way to ensure that they don't get any of the above. Again, neither the fans or the police actually know what's now deemed an offence and illegal under the new bill because the guidelines (which I've read thoroughly) aren't specific enough. If the government and police want to target football fans for so-called offensive behaviour, they have to tell the fans specifically what's now deemed offensive under the new laws. I still think it's the Government who have decided to push this through. Yes, maybe they have spoken with the police regarding it but the decision was theres. Gav, let's be clear about this (and I've told you this before), Strathclyde police are the ones who told the government to introduce these new laws. Debatable. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Fans are now likely to end up with criminal records depending on the bias of a steward/policeman. Trouble with having bitter Celtic supporting stewards at Rangers games and vice versa. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Fans are now likely to end up with criminal records depending on the bias of a steward/policeman. Trouble with having bitter Celtic supporting stewards at Rangers games and vice versa. I've worked at a lot of Celtic games and heard their fans shouting "hun bastard" and "orange bastard" and haven't jailed them. People get wound up at football games and I usually give them the benefit of the doubt. So yes, in some cases you're right S_A but not every cop/steward is like that. I'm more likely to jail someone for saying "fenian"outside the dancing on a Saturday night. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ergatrude 0 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Maybe Rangers should employ a band & give them a specific song sheet & hand this out to fans & get everyone on the same page. Some will argue that this may ruin the atmosphere as some songs are spontaneous, I'd say thats a fair point. Surely 50,000 fans singing the same song & the same lyrics at the same time would be electric? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1964 10,626 Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 Maybe Rangers should employ a band & give them a specific song sheet & hand this out to fans & get everyone on the same page. Some will argue that this may ruin the atmosphere as some songs are spontaneous, I'd say thats a fair point. Surely 50,000 fans singing the same song & the same lyrics at the same time would be electric? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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