pete 2,499 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I think it's nonsense to say he controlled the club - absolute tosh. He didn't seem to have much power compared to Walter Smith. To me what happened was that Le Guen was half hearted, weak and floundering and had little respect left at the club. The difference was that Ferguson was still respected. I'm convinced SDM would have backed Le Guen had the Frenchman shown some cajones for the fight and the longterm as well as an ounce of evidence that he could do the job required. He showed neither and buggered off at the first difficult hurdle. You don't sack a captain, legend and popular player like Barry and totally disrupt the team for a manager who is likely to either quit or be fired by the end of the season. Walter Smith came in and had no trouble with the dressing room or in getting results and he easily got shot of Bazza when he'd had enough of him. Le Guen may be a great manager elsewhere and a great man, but at Rangers he was pathetic in so many areas - and looked like his heart was never in the job. I'm glad Barry stood up to him because we got rid of him before he took us into the doldrums and then likely deserting the ship like a rat. Just because you don't agree does not make another person's way of thinking absolute tosh unless you are arrogant enough to think you are always right. To me what happened was that Le Guen was half hearted, weak and floundering and had little respect left at the club. The difference was that Ferguson was still respected. If he was half hearted and weak surely he wouldn't have sought the confrontation in the first place, and taken the easy route. It is known that he wanted to change eating and training habits and the older players disagreed with that. The same thing has happened at many other clubs and the chairmen almost always go for the cheap option of replacing the manager. Funny also how things only went pear shaped when Ferguson came back from injury and started running the show. We were playing some fantastic football before that. Walter Smith came in and had no trouble with the dressing room or in getting results and he easily got shot of Bazza when he'd had enough of him. Walter Smith had the hindsight of what happened with Le Guen and had the backing of Murray. The first thing Walter did was put Ferguson in his place and indeed got shot of him when he saw he wasn't performing. McCleish and Advocaat were also known to have dressing room problems which certainly looks like there were disrupting figures lurking in the shadow's even then. Ferguson was only Captain in name imo and certainly not a legend in my eyes. And why you can't sack anyone who is not performing is a mystery to me there are managers getting sacked all over the place. Surely the name captain doesn't make you immune to being dropped? But then again everyone talks tosh except you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I think it's nonsense to say he controlled the club - absolute tosh. He didn't seem to have much power compared to Walter Smith. To me what happened was that Le Guen was half hearted, weak and floundering and had little respect left at the club. The difference was that Ferguson was still respected. I'm convinced SDM would have backed Le Guen had the Frenchman shown some cajones for the fight and the longterm as well as an ounce of evidence that he could do the job required. He showed neither and buggered off at the first difficult hurdle. You don't sack a captain, legend and popular player like Barry and totally disrupt the team for a manager who is likely to either quit or be fired by the end of the season. Walter Smith came in and had no trouble with the dressing room or in getting results and he easily got shot of Bazza when he'd had enough of him. Le Guen may be a great manager elsewhere and a great man, but at Rangers he was pathetic in so many areas - and looked like his heart was never in the job. I'm glad Barry stood up to him because we got rid of him before he took us into the doldrums and then likely deserting the ship like a rat. Just because you don't agree does not make another person's way of thinking absolute tosh unless you are arrogant enough to think you are always right. To me what happened was that Le Guen was half hearted, weak and floundering and had little respect left at the club. The difference was that Ferguson was still respected. If he was half hearted and weak surely he wouldn't have sought the confrontation in the first place, and taken the easy route. It is known that he wanted to change eating and training habits and the older players disagreed with that. The same thing has happened at many other clubs and the chairmen almost always go for the cheap option of replacing the manager. Funny also how things only went pear shaped when Ferguson came back from injury and started running the show. We were playing some fantastic football before that. Walter Smith came in and had no trouble with the dressing room or in getting results and he easily got shot of Bazza when he'd had enough of him. Walter Smith had the hindsight of what happened with Le Guen and had the backing of Murray. The first thing Walter did was put Ferguson in his place and indeed got shot of him when he saw he wasn't performing. McCleish and Advocaat were also known to have dressing room problems which certainly looks like there were disrupting figures lurking in the shadow's even then. Ferguson was only Captain in name imo and certainly not a legend in my eyes. And why you can't sack anyone who is not performing is a mystery to me there are managers getting sacked all over the place. Surely the name captain doesn't make you immune to being dropped? But then again everyone talks tosh except you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,424 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Nicknamed little donkey according to Wikipedia. Hardly prolific this season. Had a better scoring return last season. Contracted until 2013 and valued at approx. £3m On a sidenote: We already have Le Tigre, and The Pitbull is on trial, next the Donkey? Anyone taking the micky here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It is also pretty well known that Murray was happy to back PLG if he was happy to commit to the club. PLG was not, hence why lose your captain and best player as well as your manager? Makes no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 0 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Fuck me, why the fuck did I mention Barry Ferguson... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Just because you don't agree does not make another person's way of thinking absolute tosh unless you are arrogant enough to think you are always right. Calm down a bit, I was only emphasising my large sense of disagreement in a slightly mock polemic but common way and I'd think Craig knows my style well enough and is obviously good natured enough to take it in good humour. I've "known" him online long enough see him as more of a kind of mate (at at least internet-wise) and I think that's a pretty normal way to respond to a mate (actually it's a bit more polite than the usual "bollocks" you'd use for a close friend) although perhaps it doesn't always come across as intended. I never think I'm always right - I always listen to others when they make good sense to me and in fact I think that improves the quality of my opinions as, if I think your argument is better than mine then I'll adopt your argument as my new opinion. I'm always upgrading in this way and rarely entrenched. I may be assertive when I make a stance but it is usually backed up by a lot of rational thought on both sides as well as facts and figures. I also qualified the whole sentence by saying "I think". I could have said "that doesn't make sense to me" which would be a more polite way of saying the same thing but when you get over-polite the sense of banter can be lost. You may love or hate Jeremy Clarkson but I can't imagine he'd be anywhere near as popular if he suddenly became Mr PC - and I don't think I'm anywhere in his league. I don't think I'd have had the same reply from you if your views weren't so diametrically opposed to mine on the subject. If he was half hearted and weak surely he wouldn't have sought the confrontation in the first place, and taken the easy route. It is known that he wanted to change eating and training habits and the older players disagreed with that. The same thing has happened at many other clubs and the chairmen almost always go for the cheap option of replacing the manager. Funny also how things only went pear shaped when Ferguson came back from injury and started running the show. We were playing some fantastic football before that. McCleish and Advocaat were also known to have dressing room problems which certainly looks like there were disrupting figures lurking in the shadow's even then. Ferguson was only Captain in name imo and certainly not a legend in my eyes. And why you can't sack anyone who is not performing is a mystery to me there are managers getting sacked all over the place. Surely the name captain doesn't make you immune to being dropped? If he wasn't weak he wouldn't have backed down from a confrontation where he clearly would have eventually won had he had the tenacity. I'm not suggesting he's inherently weak but the toughest of warriors is effectively weak when he just can't be bothered which I think this is a case of. I don't see how it was the cheap option - Le Guen could have made it the more expensive option as Barry could even have be sold for a fee whereas a manager has to be paid off. But I think he was happy just to call it quits. Anyway, you seem to be arguing on both sides here - you are arguing on the side that he was weaker than Ferguson - being weaker than a player makes a manager weak in my eyes. Advocaat always has problems in the dressing room as he is a control freak and grown men especially with large egos can only take so much of that. However, he seems to keep control of the dressing room for more than half a season while also usually getting some good results on the field. I believe he would have no qualms about insisting on the removal of a ring leader of trouble makers. However, it usually eventually goes pear-shaped for him and like Le Guen, he walks away. McLeish also had problems but he stuck it out for four and a half years. I didn't see SDM taking the "cheap option" there. All managers have dressing room problems - look at Newcastle for a while. How the chairman deals with it depends on the mettle of the manager - or whether he is up for the fight or not. Walter Smith is a much maligned manager and yet he was always in control - and also produced the goods EVERY season he was manager. Le Guen may have been more gifted than him (although I haven't really seen much evidence) but he basically couldn't hack the Rangers job, for whatever reason. You may think I'm anti-Le Guen but I seen him as the messiah when he came, only for him to be exposed as a false prophet. I really don't remember anything special about the type of football we played but I do remember the disappointment of so many bad results. If we were playing well without Fergie then PLG shouldn't have changed the team - captain or not, simple. But I basically think how Barry played is irrelevant. It's the manager's job to get results with the squad he has and to adjust the contents of the squad as well as he can to accommodate his plans. Demoting a captain is a big deal, but you have to be able to do a dirty job and ride the criticism in high profiles jobs. Putting your head on the block goes with the territory. You have to wonder what is better, to punish and be criticised but be your own man or back down and be criticised and look weak. i give managers a lot of respect and don't expect miracles, but when the results are consistently poor and we're not competing at all, then they fall off their pedestals. McCoist may be having problems at the moment but he's still in the hunt for the title which is way better than Le Guen was. You can argue all you like about how the Frenchman needed more time, but the cold, hard conclusion is that he just wasn't interested in having it gifted to him. Walter Smith had the hindsight of what happened with Le Guen and had the backing of Murray. The first thing Walter did was put Ferguson in his place and indeed got shot of him when he saw he wasn't performing. I think you are doing a dis-service to SDM here with no evidence. It seems more likely to me that Walter put his foot down and asserted his authority, whereas PLG acted like the weak teacher who runs to the head when the class gets out of control. I suppose I give credence to the hearsay that SDM was willing to back PLG if the latter was committed to the cause but that wasn't the answer he got. But then again everyone talks tosh except you. Ew-woo-oo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedan 93 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Nicknamed little donkey according to Wikipedia. Hardly prolific this season. Had a better scoring return last season. Contracted until 2013 and valued at approx. £3m No chance we'll get him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 And back to transfer rumours.... Jaager & Claros are now in on trial. Time will tell if Gav is correct with his "not worth the effort" post Cal, no offense taken by me with your post. I had a different meaning in mind when I said BF "controlled" the dressing room and club, want meant quite as literal as taken. The only person in recent memory to have split the support so widely is none other than...... Kris Boyd.... I am away to get the tin hat on.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Enaar Jaager at Murray Park. His names been about Glasgow for a while. 'enaaar jaager please barman'. You can see the headlines already if he gets left out 'jaager bombed at rangers' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Some rumours thread this. More talk of ex players and managers than potential new players! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts