rbr 1,256 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Last night, Vanguard Bears were granted a meeting with Rangers Chairman Craig Whyte.3 Delegates from the site attended the meeting, which was brokered by one of our influential contributors. The meeting was unprecedented, and a first for any Rangers supportersâ?? website. Happening the same week as our planned Demo at the BBC, and at a very busy time for the club, and Mr Whyte in particular, we are very grateful to Mr Whyte for actually taking time out of his busy Schedule to discuss topics of interest to Rangers fans across the globe, with Rangers Supporters Liaison Mgr Jim Hannah present. The meeting lasted 90 minutes and covered a variety of topical points, which we found productive. Jim Hannah advised us that this meeting would be a one-off meeting out with normal Assembly procedures, due to the imminent BBC protest. With Vanguard not being represented through this forum, Craig Whyte felt it appropriate in this instance in order to listen to us. Minutes as follows: Agenda for Meeting with Craig Whyte on Tuesday 1st November 2011 at 5pm. Vanguard Bears â?? who we are, what we do, and why we exist. Mr. Whyte and Rangers F.C. â?? The Future The Media The Support 1. Vanguard Bears â?? Who, What and Why: We started the meeting with a spirit of open dialogue, explaining our reasons for existence. During the last decade in particular, the club we love has been the focus of several attacks by the media No dedicated group to co-ordinate a fight back against detractors of the club Frustration at other groupsâ?? historical hesitance to fight back in a controlled and driven manner through to completion Years of experience and knowledge of the methodology behind the attacks on the Club Dedication to defending the traditions of the club Dedication to enhancing the legacy of the club No conflict of interests whatsoever; no profits, no bonuses, or contracts to be won, and no desire for power Explained that some of our senior members were founder members of the Rangers Supporters Trust Highlighted our work, successes and achievements William McBeath grave Continued highlighting of agenda of certain bloggers and journalists, who are now being ridiculed by mainstream media, and their peers Explained our members activity in marginalising certain bloggers from radio stations Previous two demos and petition granted face to face meeting with senior BBC Management in Glasgow by BBC Director General in 2009 BBC Staff responsible for two disgusting incidents regarding the titling and properties of photographs on the BBC Website disciplined Explained our reasons for leaving fans joint working group Felt that only one response to our request to demonstrate a symptom of malaise and inaction The one response, for a â??strongly worded letterâ?, woefully inadequate, naïve and two years behind us Aware of communications between certain group members excluding Vanguard Indicated our delight at common support and public backing from our friends at Gersnet, Rangers Media, Blue Order, Union Bears and several Rangers Supporters Clubs Informed that previous BBC Demos have gone without incident and that attendeesâ?? behaviour was commended by Strathclyde Police Explained that we have issued strict guidelines for attendees this Saturdayâ??s Demo Advised that photographs of demonstrators were taken of protesters at previous demo from inside BBC Building and posted on Celtic fan websites Stated our desire for Mr Whyte to address imbalances in the media, and that VB in particular supported that stance whole heartedly. Stated that we believed the previous management team had sufficient information to make informed choices, but had little appetite to do so. Durring this session, Mr Whyte was supportive, open and candid about the scale of the agenda against the club, and appreciated it is widespread and not an isolated issue at one broadcaster. He explained that the club has to evaluate the importance and reach of media outlets, the severity of the slur, the legal implications, and accept â??digsâ? from journalists or bloggers if these â??digsâ? are not libellous. We both agreed that constructive criticism was completely acceptable. My Whyte explained that he is still being advised by Carter Ruck with regards to allegations made on the BBC Programme â??Rangers â?? The Inside Storyâ?, its researchers and contributors. Those who have repeated said allegations may also be pursued. We explained that while VB was set up to act primarily as a conduit for supporters to right wrongs, and address agendas against the club, above all else we are Rangers supporters who care deeply for the club. Therefore, it would have been foolish not to ask questions on the future of the club: 2. Mr. Whyte and Rangers F.C. â?? The Future Some direct questions were put to Mr Whyte VB â?? Reports of Rangers going in to Administration continue to dominate the media in Scotland, including a rumour from a credible source to VB that the club will voluntarily enter Administration on Monday 7th November. Is there any truth in this rumour? CW â?? Not at all. Our phones were red hot last Friday (28th October) with the same rumour, which led to us having to contact media organisations to inform them it was business as usual for us VB â?? Do you have a value in mind that you could settle at with HMRC that could allow the club to pay off any amount due, should Rangers lose the â??mainâ? case against the organisation, and avoid the scenario of Administration or Insolvency? CW â?? Yes, although that value is sensitive VB â?? Would that value be paid directly without offsetting against future season ticket revenue? CW â?? Yes VB â?? Are you confident of winning the case? CW â?? Yes VB â?? Do you genuinely see Administration as an option, or is it part of a game with HMRC? CW â?? Sadly, it is an option, and not a game in the slightest, although we see it (Administration) as worst case scenario. A Plan â??Dâ? if you will. Administration is not, and never has been a Pre determined Strategy to deal with any possible loss of the â??mainâ? tax case. Rangers are talking to HMRC on a daily basis VB â?? What is the legal/contractual position of â??Murray Parkâ?? Can is be put to the fans to rename, perhaps as a symbol of a new era? CW â?? There is no obligation to keep the name of â??Murray Parkâ?. VB- We've have no representation on either the SFA professional board or the SPL board since Martin Bain has left? With Peter Lawwell, Eric Riley & Stephen Thompson among those now in senior positions there seems little influence for Rangers within the management circles of Scottish Football CW â?? The SPL is democratic, and Ali Russell will take over from Eric Riley at the SPL next year. The SFA has obviously been through some restructuring which we will monitor throughout the coming months. VB â?? The previous management at Rangers attempted a Share issue, which was undersubscribed, largely due to a lack of trust between the support and the custodian. Is this an avenue that you have considered? CW â?? Itâ??s not something we have considered to any great degree. Do you think the support would invest? VB â?? If given confidence that the money would be used wisely, yes We then moved on to more general Media issues 3. The Media VB - We have already covered the BBC Demo, and the Documentary, and note your action against The Record and Herald during this season has resulted in quick apologies, what is your position on Graham Spiers CW â?? I decided when I took over the club, that while I would address media imbalance, I would start with a clean slate, and expect the same in return. After seeing Mr Spiersâ?? involvement in the BBC Documentary, we were considering whether to withdraw all press privileges, but decided against it, as we were of the view that his influence and readership is not significant enough to trouble us. That said, when we took that decision we only considered â??The Timesâ??â? reach in Scotland, not their reach in England and beyond. [Following discussion with JH] It is too late to reverse that decision. If Mr Spiers appears on our radar again for the wrong reasons, we will take a more holistic view. In football terms heâ??s on a retrospective yellow card VB â?? Are you aware of any journalists that he considers as having a sympathetic ear to the club? CW â?? To a certain degree yes, but some are constrained, and outnumbered within their outlets to put the required balance back in to reporting. Some also have their work edited. (CW named two journalists, who VB were non committal on our view of them) 4. The Support VB - One of the reasons our plans for a BBC Demo were delayed, were the reports coming in from fellow fans about their treatment at the hands of Stewards at Ibrox, where we felt that our fellow supporters were being unfairly targeted by G4S at Ibrox, and treated like cattle on their travels. We temporarily put our energy in to offering advice and support to those affected. The SNP and â??Anti Sectarian Billâ? â?? How can the club help the support, when our behaviour in recent years with regards to â??Sectarianismâ? has been exemplary? CW â?? Will will continue to lobby strongly, and ask that our supporters not be singled out without good reason. G4S have been spoken to since the incidents you refer to, but are still constrained by a lack of clarity from the authorities VB â?? It is our understanding that there is a specific letter from UEFA with respect to â??The Billy Boysâ?, but that it has never been distributed. [CW looks to JH] JH â?? Yes, there is a letter specifically outlining â??The Billy Boysâ?, and it was shown to members of the RST, Assembly and Supporters Association. It does exist and is not a myth. VB â?? We are concerned at the double standards on the term â??Fenianâ?, and how the goalposts have moved on a word historically an exclusive term referring to â??Irish Republicansâ? of all religions, to have a dual meaning interpreted by certain factions as they see fir. CW/JH â?? Case law and legal advice tells us that those of influence in Justice deem that the term can be deemed Sectarian in certain circumstances, but that there is a lack of clarity over what these circumstances are. The time to argue this was before case law. That time has passed. VB â?? We are also concerned over the double standard in usage of the sectarian word â??Hunâ?, which also has case law to support it being sectarian, but there is a distinct lack of action on those using the term CW â?? We were unaware of this case law and will look in to it VB â?? In recent years it has been noticeable that there is a significant political presence at Celtic Park both within the boardroom, and in stands, why does it not appear to be the same at Ibrox? Are we looking at engaging with Political figures CW â?? Believe it or not, there are a handful of MPs and political figures not shy to show their allegiance. They may not be household names, and the cameras as Ibrox generally being on the same side of the pitch as the main stand perhaps doesnâ??t show them regularly. In any event, I donâ??t think they are here to be on telly. VB â?? Regards our BBC Demo, do you back it? CW â?? I can fully understand the frustrations that have driven you to organise it As we were about to wrap up proceedings we asked one final question. VB â?? We understand that there was an incident in the Tunnel at Ibrox before you bought the club, where an opposition manager is rumoured to have racially abused Vladimir Weiss and El Hadj Diouf. Did this happen, and if so, why werenâ??t the press told? Do the club have evidence? CW â?? I wasnâ??t here, so canâ??t comment. We donâ??t want anyone to lose their job do we? JH â?? No Comment VB â?? Thanks for your time Mr Whyte CW/JH â?? Our pleasure JH signed off with a reminder that VB should consider becoming part of the Assembly. VB Representatives stated that we would consult our members. Admin Vanguardbears.co.uk 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears 0 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Good read, but never really back him into a corner, which might not have been there angle though. I did actually laugh out loud when CW said Speirs wasn’t significant enough hahahahahaha 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,256 Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 posted this on ££ , it lasted 11 minutes , if that doesnt sum up Dingwall then nothing will 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_2010 0 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I liked the comment about not wanting anyone to lose their job... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_2010 0 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 posted this on ££ , it lasted 11 minutes , if that doesnt sum up Dingwall then nothing will I don't get what happens over at Follow Follow... (if anyone recognises my username, a friend who was banned years ago uses it to post) 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears 0 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I liked the comment about not wanting anyone to lose their job... So much was said with CW’s reply and the “no comment” It happened 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,405 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 All questions he has been asked and answered before, so nothing at all new coming out of this, but good that Whyte again gave his time to communicate with fans groups, something that was sadly missing over the last 20+ years. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 All good and interesting. Renaming of Murray park is such a minor issue, imo, not sure of the need to even mention it with the more pressing issues currently engulfing the club. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 posted this on ££ , it lasted 11 minutes , if that doesnt sum up Dingwall then nothing will You are shitting me ? I have to say that is absolutely appalling from FF. They should be thanking VB for bringing this to the online support, not deleting the thread entirely. Well done to Vanguard Bears on what can only be considered a major coup (almost as good as getting Gio in an interview - just kidding VB guys). I wouldnt have minded them asking a follow up question on the politicians - much as though they are "not there to be on the TV" - they still hold influence in the corridors of power. We would be foolish to not at least be mindful of that. I do like the "we dont want anyone to lose their job do we?" comment. Tongue-in-cheek barb at Lennon. Nice one. Saying that administration is "Plan D" suggests that the club have more than one preferred alternative to administration which is good planning. "Would that value be paid without offsetting future ST money" - response in the affirmative suggests that finances are not as bad as they would appear - although who knows these days with us. Only when we win OR lose the tax case will we have any kid of idea where we stand in the grand scheme of things. Again, big well done to VB on a major coup. One which I would have thought the vast majority of fans would be happy to see as it has our custodian speaking about some of the issues the club faces. Well done. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 So much was said with CW’s reply and the “no comment” It happened I would agree. The fact Hannah said "no comment" suggests it happened. If it hadnt he would have dispelled the rumour as there would be no need to perpetuate it. For the life of me I cant fathom why we havent blown the lid on it. Apparently at the CFC AGM Lennon was asked what McCoist whispered to him on the touchline in THAT game and he said "One day I will tell all". Hope he can live with the consequences when he does. When he opens his mouth on what was said to him I suspect that it will appear as to what he said to Weiss & Diouf. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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