Walter Smith

[calscot 0]

Like I said, you don't have any point(s) to get. My old friend Bob MacCallum would be amused at your deflection, thankfully in my neck of the woods we don't worry to much about tims.

 

What deflection? Really? I made some points and you didn't reply to them. Your answer was "you don't have a point" and then this. Now maybe you need to look up "deflection" in the dictionary. Maybe you need to look up "rebuttal" also.

[Guest puk]

What deflection? Really? I made some points and you didn't reply to them. Your answer was "you don't have a point" and then this. Now maybe you need to look up "deflection" in the dictionary. Maybe you need to look up "rebuttal" also.

 

What I don't need to look up is the history of Rangers FC., you imagined you made points, when in fact you made observations, your own. Points have substance and depth to them, where as your observations where like farts in the storm. I trust that rebuttal meets with your approval.

[calscot 0]

What I don't need to look up is the history of Rangers FC., you imagined you made points, when in fact you made observations, your own. Points have substance and depth to them, where as your observations where like farts in the storm. I trust that rebuttal meets with your approval.

 

Your rebuttal is certainly what I expected and clearly demonstrates the extent of your great knowledge of Rangers. If you do have any knowledge you definitely don't know how to apply it. Permit me to respond in kind: your mother was obviously the rear end of a horse, and I fart in your general direction.

[Guest puk]

Your rebuttal is certainly what I expected and clearly demonstrates the extent of your great knowledge of Rangers. If you do have any knowledge you definitely don't know how to apply it. Permit me to respond in kind: your mother was obviously the rear end of a horse, and I fart in your general direction.

 

Such class, fits with your knowledge, lacking.

[Gazza_8 233]

[Norris Cole 0]

Most ironic post in a long time. Your level of debate is as purile as always. If my points are shite, why do you not have the ability to deal with them in an intelligent way? All you do is insult and deflect. Go on, show us some chops to go with that arrogant swagger...

 

I actually find it funny you say that it's shite to say we used to have a great support with respect for the club... but hey that's your opinion. However, you could have put it in a way that actually stimulates debate rather than go to the lowest denominator.

 

Heavens you're dull.

[calscot 0]

Thought I'd do a bit of research on Scott Symon as I don't know him first hand as he was sacked the year before I was born.

 

He was undoubtedly a great manager, but like Walter was not perfect and while I don't want to play down his achievements, I don't see it as dignified to disparage a successful, current manager by unfairly comparing him to an unrealistic memory of someone from half a century ago.

 

His record is:

 

 

1954/55 : 3rd, 0 cups

1955/56 : 1st, 0 cups

1956/57 : 1st, EC out 2nd rnd Nice

1957/58 : 2nd, 0 cups, lost 7-1 Celtic LC final, LC SF Hibs, EC 2nd rnd Milan

1958/59 : 1st, 0 cups

1959/60 : 3rd, won SC, EC SF 12-4 Eitracht Frankfurt

1960/61 : 1st, LC, CWC final, SC out 3rd rnd Motherwell

1961/62 : 2nd, Won SC + LC, EC QF Standard Liege

1962/63 : 1st, won SC, out SF of LC to Kilmarnock, CWC 2nd rnd Spurs

1963/64 : 1st, 2 cups, EC 1st rnd Real Madrid

1964/65 : 5th, won LC, SC 3rd rnd Hibs, EC QF Inter

1965/66 : 2nd, won SC

1966/67 : 2nd, 0 cups, lost to Berwick, CWC final

1967/68 : 2nd, 0 cups, ICFC QF Leeds

 

That's 6 titles in 14 seasons which although quite good, doesn't look as good as 8 titles in 10 seasons for Walter.

 

He also won an impressive 9 trophies in 14 seasons but that again is eclipsed by Smith with 10 in 10 seasons.

 

His record in Europe was pretty amazing, although he failed to win either of the two finals he contested. Walter had one final and while he made the EC semi-final, our current manager did at least the equivalent in '92.

 

Symon's worst seasons in the league seen him finish third twice and fifth whereas Smith's worst are finishing second by a mere two and three points, with the latter basically being cheated from him.

 

Symon's lowest points were losing 7-1 to Celtic in a league cup final and going out to Berwick Rangers in the Scottish cup; two of the worst results in our history. The point I would make is that that does not make him a bad manager, far from it.

 

On the Berwick result Symon was quoted:

 

"I am at a loss to understand how professional players can go into a game like that and apparently fail to understand the consequences of a defeat for the club. Our prestige has received a shattering blow."

"They, the players, were found wanting completely in ability and intelligence".

 

Rangers Chairman John Lawrence, quoted:

 

"There is no doubt in my mind, that the only people who can be blamed for this defeat, are the ones on the field, the players."

 

Here's a quote from a website on Scott Symon that may surprise many - on the second CWC final defeat against Bayern Munich:

 

"For some strange reason, Symon left then top scorer, Alex Willoughby, out of the team, and played centre half Roger Hynd up front instead of him. Such was Willoughby's frustration at being dropped, he immediately submitted a transfer request.

Symon was hoping, that the skill and speed of Johnston and Henderson on the wings would win the match for him. The fact that Rangers did not have a natural striker up front, for the wingers to pick out, still all these years later, mystify's many."

 

The Rangers chairman said:

"Rangers need new strikers, and playing 3 half backs in attack, was not good enough".

 

Here's how the website describes the end for Symon:

"The end for Symon came on the 28th October 1967, when after he substituted Alex Willoughby, during a boring 0-0 draw against Dunfermline, the crowd reacted badly to this decisson, and vocally made their feelings known to Symon and the board, exactly what the thought of this decisson."

 

It's also noted that Symon's teams were defeated by Jock Stien's teams who played defensive, counter attacking football - similar to WS today, including losing 5-1 on one occasion. "The simple fact was that Rangers kept pushing up the park trying to get back into the game, and Celtic picked us off on the counter attack."

 

I'm not trying to bring down Symon but to show that much of the criticism aimed at WS could be aimed at almost any manager, even those whose memory we hold dear.

 

WS has his faults but clearly does not deserve the witch hunt he seems to be experiencing, especially when false comparisons to previous great managers are used.

 

Scott Symon was a great manager and for a couple of seasons had what many think of as the best Rangers team of all time; however, when you compare him to Walter Smith, it's incredibly disingenuous and undignified to label the latter as some sort of idiot failure. Nobody's perfect but even then not many can hold a candle to Smith.

[calscot 0]

Heavens you're dull.

 

And again you act like a second user-name for MF. You really think your latest contribution is interesting? We used to have some real debate in this place but this is what replaces it these days...

 

Maybe you'll like me more if I sound like you. Here goes:

 

No, you're dull.

 

Is that better?

[bmck 117]

Right, come on. Let's not turn this into a tim style implosion, lads. Let's bear the result without turning on each other.

[bmck 117]

Oops:oops:

 

Ooops indeed! It's OK, history's all changed, and it's now very well said. Warnings in the post. Please let's all be nice and stuff.