The Murray Legacy - are we awake yet?

[maineflyer 0]

Thinking about the news that offers are being received for Allan McGregor, I'm not really surprised that he will be sold. Wealthy clubs have always accumulated the best players and we should expect our best to be targeted by these clubs. After all, we've done it ourselves for over a hundred years. I do find it dispiriting that he might be sold for as little as �£5m which neither seems to reflect contemporary value nor the importance of the player to the club. Such underselling inevitably diminishes the club even further. But we have a ready replacement in Alexander, who will not let us down, and apart from the price this isn't the end of the world on its own.

 

What I do find utterly depressing however is the lack of any apparent end to this decline. At the time when I first discovered Gersnet some years back I was convinced the club would diminish considerably from where it was then but I also expected a time would come when it would be sold and a new beginning would be reached, perhaps not quite on the scale of the 1986 rebirth but at least a fresh start. Now I fear we might yet look back and see these times as something to aspire to. If the tax investigation ends badly, we might easily sink without trace.

 

I just hope we finally have it in us to wake up and never again put our unquestioning faith in an owner as we did with Murray. Not only did we close our collective eyes to what was going on at the club but we actively encouraged Murray to indulge himself with the thing we held so dear. "Rape us harder Dave, it must be good for us". How fucking stupid do we look now? And given the lack of any voice being raised against Murray even now, how stupid are we yet prepared to become.

 

From the laughable posturing these last few months by the RST and other accumulations of plastic, it seems the pit of our stupidity might indeed be bottomless. Quite prepared to hoot about Lloyds and holler about Donald Muir, our 'reps' show their finely honed affectations at every turn but do you hear a single meaningful proposal directed at the root of the problem? Do you fuck. Do you see one attempt to harness the fans in protest? Do you see one glimmer of hope that the support has finally decided enough is enough? Do you fuck. It appears our capacity for self-deception and weakness is perhaps limitless after all.

 

Instead of looking for the cause of our decline only in others, maybe we could usefully spend some time on more introspective reflection. just a thought.

[Stimpy 0]

Is there anyone that could bring all bears together to actively show our grievances towards Murray and his disciples? We all know who's to blame so solutions are required to bring about either A) Murray actually sorts all the problems he created himself instead of bleeding the club dry. B) He hands over control to the RST (no jokes) where they could at least try and move forward with proper business men. C) he tells the truth about the tax bill and sells to Whyte.

 

Bottom line, IMO, is we somehow walk on to Edinburgh and demand answers from 'The Mint'. Doing that in unison though is the hard part. Too much division in our support.

[bmck 117]

I just hope we finally have it in us to wake up and never again put our unquestioning faith in an owner as we did with Murray. .

 

But we will. There are two scenarios, I think. 1) We get a new owner in the nick of time, and put blind faith in him in precisely the same manner and leave it to chance whether he deserves it or not. 2) These times truly, as you say, become something to aspire to in an even more depressing future of obscurity, in which case if we ever do rise again we will be critical of owners.

 

I think these are the only two options. People only get wise about things after unmitigated disaster. For those of us who think about it, just now's unmitigated disaster but in reality the current state's the tip of the iceberg.

[maineflyer 0]

Is there anyone that could bring all bears together to actively show our grievances towards Murray and his disciples? We all know who's to blame so solutions are required to bring about either A) Murray actually sorts all the problems he created himself instead of bleeding the club dry. B) He hands over control to the RST (no jokes) where they could at least try and move forward with proper business men. C) he tells the truth about the tax bill and sells to Whyte.

 

Bottom line, IMO, is we somehow walk on to Edinburgh and demand answers from 'The Mint'. Doing that in unison though is the hard part. Too much division in our support.

 

What I was suggesting (but probably not clearly) was that we should look at ourselves before worrying too much about Murray or others because ....

 

1. Unless we sort ourselves out there's never going to be a challenge to Murray, let alone a support worthy or capable of responsibility. The RST is symptomatic of our failures, why on earth would anyone want to bring that into a hopeful future?

 

2. If we only point fingers at Murray we will never become the support that can make a difference to anything, just as pointing fingers at Lloyds means we keep missing the fact that it's Murray who lies at the root of our ills. We are what really needs to change. Looking around for someone to lead us is the very reason why no leadership ever emerges, it's just the same old buck passing, the same "who's gonna make it better".

[maineflyer 0]

But we will. There are two scenarios, I think. 1) We get a new owner in the nick of time, and put blind faith in him in precisely the same manner and leave it to chance whether he deserves it or not. 2) These times truly, as you say, become something to aspire to in an even more depressing future of obscurity, in which case if we ever do rise again we will be critical of owners.

 

I think these are the only two options. People only get wise about things after unmitigated disaster. For those of us who think about it, just now's unmitigated disaster but in reality the current state's the tip of the iceberg.

I'm not sure. There are many who are already critical, some who have been for a decade or more. The problem is in the numbers but it's not true to say we need to fall over the cliff before we realise we're heading downwards. Maybe we just need to listen to different voices. Maybe we just need to find the moment that would previously have been ignored.

[Stimpy 0]

Ah, got ye MF.

 

For leader to emerge, fan groups and representative organisations to need to work together. There's so many of them out there all wanting a slice of the pie that when any of them are challenged, one or two will dig dirt and air it on here or other forums. It's become fashionable to fling dirt instead of working constructively or reflecting on ourselves.

 

I'd love an actual Gers legend to voice his concerns and ask the fans what you've suggested. Perhaps that would work?

[maineflyer 0]

Ah, got ye MF.

 

For leader to emerge, fan groups and representative organisations to need to work together. There's so many of them out there all wanting a slice of the pie that when any of them are challenged, one or two will dig dirt and air it on here or other forums. It's become fashionable to fling dirt instead of working constructively or reflecting on ourselves.

 

I'd love an actual Gers legend to voice his concerns and ask the fans what you've suggested. Perhaps that would work?

 

The thing about trying to change organisations is that they are usually as they are because of the internal interests of their hierarchy and are almost always resistant to change, no matter how sensible that change might be. Also, in order to make way for something/someone that can make a positive difference, you first have to remove the dysfunctional misfit currently occupying the stage. Even Lenin grasped that one.

 

We all know the current fans organisations are hopeless and will never achieve the change we need. We also know they will never change. But as long as they continue to exist they will act as a brake on any progress. Only when they are no longer around to hinder better voices will those better voices ever emerge.

 

The support is effectively in a state of hijack, with some quite unsavoury characters holding the guns. How you get them to put those guns down and walk away is at the heart of both our ills and our hope. I wish I had the answer.

[bmck 117]

I'm not sure. There are many who are already critical, some who have been for a decade or more. The problem is in the numbers but it's not true to say we need to fall over the cliff before we realise we're heading downwards. Maybe we just need to listen to different voices. Maybe we just need to find the moment that would previously have been ignored.

 

The boldened bit is what I'm talking about really. The 'many' who've been critical aren't all that many, and usually dispirate and disorganised and thought of as a little whacky by the bulk of the numbers. It's not that 'we' need to be more willing to listen to new opinions - people online that aren't slavishly devoted to one group already try and go where the best ideas are. I thought VB were a bit nutty and extremist, but they've done excellent things and we'd be happy to support anything worthwhile they done. Even at the time when the RST were being evangelical about unity around the same time they had some idea for a fan investment scheme, we'd probably have supported that. But if you mean 'we' as in the Rangers support, I don't think the big numbers, the bulk of the numbers, will learn their lesson without a disaster. I don't think Rangers fans are just like that, I think people everywhere in history are like that. We pretend we're not like that, but our 'recognising' there's a problem largely extends to saying it on a forum (well, mine's does) because life throws up other things.

 

That said, you're right about it being possible at just the right time with just the right person saying it. It's not something we've managed so far though.

[maineflyer 0]

The boldened bit is what I'm talking about really. The 'many' who've been critical aren't all that many, and usually dispirate and disorganised and thought of as a little whacky by the bulk of the numbers. It's not that 'we' need to be more willing to listen to new opinions - people online that aren't slavishly devoted to one group already try and go where the best ideas are. I thought VB were a bit nutty and extremist, but they've done excellent things and we'd be happy to support anything worthwhile they done. Even at the time when the RST were being evangelical about unity around the same time they had some idea for a fan investment scheme, we'd probably have supported that. But if you mean 'we' as in the Rangers support, I don't think the big numbers, the bulk of the numbers, will learn their lesson without a disaster. I don't think Rangers fans are just like that, I think people everywhere in history are like that. We pretend we're not like that, but our 'recognising' there's a problem largely extends to saying it on a forum (well, mine's does) because life throws up other things.

 

That said, you're right about it being possible at just the right time with just the right person saying it. It's not something we've managed so far though.

 

There's not a bit of that I would disagree with. Unfortunately, I'm at the old game of describing the problem rather than the solution....... for the very reasons you give. But there is at least some value in keeping on raising the problem and trying to refine what it really is.

[Frankie 8,562]

As you know, for the most part at least, online you're preaching to the converted.

 

The problem is reaching the majority in a credible fashion. Only way you can do that is via former players/managers prepared to listen to what we have to say, agree, fine-tune it and deliver it publicly for us.

 

As it stands, that person does not exist - in public at least.