Inhibiting free and reasonable debate on Gersnet

[maineflyer 0]

Since there appear to be those administering this forum who see fit to inhibit free expression by closing threads without explanation or, as far as I can see, due cause, I would like to register my disgust and severe annoyance at this practice. It's not something I expect to see on Gersnet and I hope this might stimulate some kind of explanation for the abrupt closure of the "Here we go again ..." thread earlier this evening. It would be useful to know if this is likely how debate will be moderated from now on.

 

I acknowledge the private messages from Bmck on this matter but since he is so far unable to explain the thread closure, I think the matter needs wider review.

Edited December 16, 2010 by maineflyer

[bmck 117]

Your disgust is duly noted. I'm not sure who closed the thread or why, but as you already know we'll certainly look into it. Cheers.

Edited December 16, 2010 by bmck

[maineflyer 0]

Why was this thread moved to this out-of-the-way, lowest profile location when it is so clearly linked to the closed thread mentioned in the main Rangers forum? This smacks of an unwillingness to deal openly with criticism and to make sure the fewest possible members ever read it. Most unimpressive from Gersnet.

[Frankie 8,562]

Don't be silly MF. This is the sub-forum we use for such matters so that's why it was moved here - for no other reason. Some places wouldn't even allow an open discussion on this but, as usual here, we've nothing to hide.

 

Regarding the thread, not sure what happened there (we had another thread closed a couple of weeks back which we couldn't track either) but it may be an issue with the new forum style and/or someone pressing a button by mistake.

 

The thread is open now of course.

 

With regard to fenian (note it is now uncensored) this is a remnant from years gone by on Gersnet (we've been around now for 10 years) where we had a few members who wanted to use the term less than constructively. These people no longer post and the forum has taken a different style on in recent years. To that end, we're happy to remove any censored words and moderate on an ad-hoc basis instead.

 

As ever, we trust our members to understand their responsibilities in that regard and don't foresee any problems given the other legal explanations bmck has kindly offered.

[maineflyer 0]

Sorry but (as you'd probably expect) I don't see anything silly at all and see your dismissal of my concerns as unnecessary. You may have the benefit of hindsight but the facts as they stood at the time I wrote my previous post were that the thread in question had been closed without explanation. Several pm exchanges with admin only received in return a denial that the thread had been closed at all, which seemed understandably strange. Even when the thread closure was finally recognised, it did not appear to be possible to say why this had happened or to re-open the thread. While this may be perfectly understandable from your perspective, those of us less well informed about site policy could only see that a thread had been inexplicably closed immediately after mention of the inability to use the word 'fenian'. I posted the OP above on the main Rangers forum to ensure my concern over what (understandably) looked like censorship didn't lose visibility and since it clearly referred to a closed thread on that forum it seemed reasonable that it remained there, at least until the matter was resolved.

 

I've no real interest whether you think this is justified or not but I do think you could have found a better description than silly.

[Frankie 8,562]

I meant silly in regard to the moving of this thread into this sub-forum... Apologies if that wasn't clear. That was silly as we've never had anything to hide on here as you should know from your time on the forum. We just like to try and keep the place tidy.

 

The reason the thread wasn't re-opened in a more timely fashion was because bmck didn't know who had closed it so was awaiting information on that before doing so.

[Super_Ally 0]

I think the fact that the discussion on the thread that was accidentally closed led to a poll being created and a thread to discuss the term fenian shows that your views were taken seriously. It also led to adult discussion and the agreement that the members of this board could be trusted to use the term responsibly.

 

The thread was closed, it appears, due to a problem with the new site upgrade or down to user error. As a man who fights against any kind of unnecessary or overbearing moderation I can understand why you were pissed off at thinking someone was trying to censor debate. The fact that you were trying to raise this point via pm with an administrator who was unaware of the thread being closed will have only added to your frustration. However the thread has been reopened since the error was discovered and the overall outcome of this is that a controversial but ultimately acceptable term is no longer censored on the board.

[bmck 117]

Sorry but (as you'd probably expect) I don't see anything silly at all and see your dismissal of my concerns as unnecessary.

 

MF, I denied the thread had been closed because I thought it hadn't. I then saw it had, immediately admitted my mistake and said I'd look into it. I sent you a full PM, once I knew what happened, saying what had happened. I also explained why it wasn't immediately re-opened, and why I didn't know why it was closed in the first place. I really don't think you've been hard done by in this, and it wouldn't hurt to look at things a little more charitably. We're clearly not evil people bent on stiffling you - this level of contention is silly, and it's the right word. It took a day, but we investigated what happened, re-opened the thread and in the process had an open discussion about the use of the word, which is a wider issue, and have accordingly changed our policy. A day's hardly a long time to wait, and it would all have happened whether you'd approached the issue contentiously or just simply asked in a normal manner anyway.

Edited December 16, 2010 by bmck

[maineflyer 0]

MF, I denied the thread had been closed because I thought it hadn't. I then saw it had, immediately admitted my mistake and said I'd look into it. I sent you a full PM, once I knew what happened, saying what had happened. I also explained why it wasn't immediately re-opened, and why I didn't know why it was closed in the first place. I really don't think you've been hard done by in this, and it wouldn't hurt to look at things a little more charitably. We're clearly not evil people bent on stiffling you - this level of contention is silly, and it's the right word. It took a day, but we investigated what happened, re-opened the thread and in the process had an open discussion about the use of the word, which is a wider issue, and have accordingly changed our policy. A day's hardly a long time to wait, and it would all have happened whether you'd approached the issue contentiously or just simply asked in a normal manner anyway.

I can't see your problem and your post unnecessarily overly defensive. For clarity, I have no problem waiting a day or ten days, in fact time was never an issue that entered any of my posts. Neither have I even once claimed to be hard done by in any of this, that's your viewpoint alone and only you seem to think I'm feeling 'stifled'. In fact the emotion all seems to be flowing from the Gersnet direction from what I can see ...... I might not like the idea of being censored, I might even post to that effect, but don't for a moment think it took up more of my attention than the time to type a few words. On the other hand, I didn't particularly like being described as silly when that seemed rather personal and uncalled for. What seems to have caused some irritation was my decision to open this particular thread but it might be worth considering that while you and I had exchanged pm's, no one else had any explanation of why the thread had been closed - it might have been more appropriate to leave this thread where it was and post an explanation of what was happening. I'm sure tidiness could have been achieved just as effectively after the original thread was re-opened. So there:flipa:

[bmck 117]

So there:flipa:

 

I'll see your vickies and raise you one raspberry.