Draw for the CL

[calscot 0]

Probably the cheapest, smallest, British squad to ever take part in the CL... Is it really surprising?

 

You can expect anything you like in life, but if it's unrealistic under the circumstances, then you'll normally be disappointed. Just like my expectations for balanced, reasonable and well communicated viewpoints are often disappointed...

[calscot 0]

PS I don't think it's fair throwing us in with the English and pointing out how bad we are. The English have the richest league in the world and have the best coefficient in Europe. While we're playing in a cash poor Scottish league we can never expect good comparisons with down south. No country outside the top five can compete with them and the top five are struggling to keep up.

 

Compare us with the rest of Scotland if you like, but Rangers and Walter have a decent record in comparison there.

[stewarty 1,909]

God or bad, maybe the fact that we have the worst points total (2) of any British team in the CL and we were the first to lose all of our home games answers that, if you think that record is acceptable carry on, some of us expect higher standards and achievement from Rangers.

 

But as Calscot alludes to, you can pick out stats in isolation to prove a point, but they aint that bad relatively speaking given the financial restrictions of playing in the SPL.

 

(ETA - Calscot got in with a similar point first!)

[craig 5,199]

God or bad, maybe the fact that we have the worst points total (2) of any British team in the CL and we were the first to lose all of our home games answers that, if you think that record is acceptable carry on, some of us expect higher standards and achievement from Rangers.

 

Like perhaps reaching a European final ? Oh wait... Walter did that.... but it doesnt fit with the argument does it ?!?!

[Totti 0]

Like perhaps reaching a European final ? Oh wait... Walter did that.... but it doesnt fit with the argument does it ?!?!

Reaching it was pretty pointless at the end of the day because we made no attempt to win it. I'd have rather lost 5-0 and gone down fighting that park the bus and make no attempt to fight for the game.

 

And it was the biggest fluke getting there, much like when Greece won Euro 2004. Just packing the defence, hoping for the best and largely being carried by Cuellar.

 

On to the champions league draw, we could have drawn a harder team in pot 1 as Man Utd aren't half as good as they were, but they'll still likely hammer us. Valencia is a horrible pot 2 team to get. Kills any chance of getting to the last 16, which should be a realistic minimum target every season for a club of our supposed size.

[wabashcannonball 0]

Like perhaps reaching a European final ? Oh wait... Walter did that.... but it doesnt fit with the argument does it ?!?!

 

So did Scot Symon and Willie Waddell, WW won his, so what exactly is your point, I wasn't aware it was an arguement, just a statement of recorded facts, seems some like to look for excuses, I prefer improvement.

[craig 5,199]

So did Scot Symon and Willie Waddell, WW won his, so what exactly is your point, I wasn't aware it was an arguement, just a statement of recorded facts, seems some like to look for excuses, I prefer improvement.

 

Since Smith has returned he has won the VAST majority of domestic trophies and, but for a ridiculous schedule of games, would currently be chasing 4 in a row - not bad for a manager who has been crippled financially and hasnt been able to sign a player for two years - whilst our biggest competitors continue to throw vast amounts of money at attempting to wrest the league back from us.

 

The days of attempting to win things from Symon and Waddell's days are far, far different. Back then teams could compete with the best of Europe regardless of finances. Celtic reached a European final with a team of players all from within a 30 mile radius. That will never happen again, not even from teams from the "big leagues".

 

Smith has gotten us to a UEFA final and also came a hairs breadth from reaching the CL final back in 1992. Yet you make a broad-brush statement that his tenure in Europe has been an abject failure.

 

Since his return it is almost irrefutable that we have punched abouve our weight in European competition.

 

I have the same high standards as you do when it comes to all things Rangers - but when the club have been shopping in Pounstretchers for 8 years whilst our competitors have been shopping in Harrods it would suggest, to even the untrained eye, that those high standards will struggle to be met - at least internationally.

 

Domesticity is our bread and butter IMO, at least whilst our finances are as they are and at least while there is no parity in Europe with regards revenues - and in that domain Smith has done a more than adequate job.

[wabashcannonball 0]

Since Smith has returned he has won the VAST majority of domestic trophies and, but for a ridiculous schedule of games, would currently be chasing 4 in a row - not bad for a manager who has been crippled financially and hasnt been able to sign a player for two years - whilst our biggest competitors continue to throw vast amounts of money at attempting to wrest the league back from us.

 

The days of attempting to win things from Symon and Waddell's days are far, far different. Back then teams could compete with the best of Europe regardless of finances. Celtic reached a European final with a team of players all from within a 30 mile radius. That will never happen again, not even from teams from the "big leagues".

 

Smith has gotten us to a UEFA final and also came a hairs breadth from reaching the CL final back in 1992. Yet you make a broad-brush statement that his tenure in Europe has been an abject failure.

 

Since his return it is almost irrefutable that we have punched abouve our weight in European competition.

 

I have the same high standards as you do when it comes to all things Rangers - but when the club have been shopping in Pounstretchers for 8 years whilst our competitors have been shopping in Harrods it would suggest, to even the untrained eye, that those high standards will struggle to be met - at least internationally.

 

Domesticity is our bread and butter IMO, at least whilst our finances are as they are and at least while there is no parity in Europe with regards revenues - and in that domain Smith has done a more than adequate job.

 

 

I see, you don't really have a point.

[craig 5,199]

Reaching it was pretty pointless at the end of the day because we made no attempt to win it. I'd have rather lost 5-0 and gone down fighting that park the bus and make no attempt to fight for the game.

 

And it was the biggest fluke getting there, much like when Greece won Euro 2004. Just packing the defence, hoping for the best and largely being carried by Cuellar.

 

On to the champions league draw, we could have drawn a harder team in pot 1 as Man Utd aren't half as good as they were, but they'll still likely hammer us. Valencia is a horrible pot 2 team to get. Kills any chance of getting to the last 16, which should be a realistic minimum target every season for a club of our supposed size.

 

So you would rather we had went down 5-0 in the first round too then ? We played defensively (some would call it playing to your strengths) pretty much the whole way through the competition - so why change a "winning" formula just because you reach the final ? (let me caveat this by saying that I, too, wish in the final that we had been more aggressive and went down fighting, especially as I always felt we would come off 2nd best to Zenit - but a manager is employed to win games and WS had a formation and tactics that had served him well against very good teams). So whilst I was disappointed, like you, I still wont begrudge him the tactics he employed.

 

You make your own luck. He got there. End of. How he got there is almost irrelevant.

 

Back on topic... I agree with you - Man U arent as tough a team as they were 3 or 4 years ago. That said, they are light years ahead of us - so I fully expect to not getting a point from them - the only thing that MIGHT help us is that we play them at home in the penultimate game and, if they have qualified, I can see Sir Alex putting out a 2nd string team.

 

Valencia arent as good as they once were either - but any Spanish team being in the CL is a tough draw even though they have lost some players - I dont expect to finish above them but you never know.

 

Turkish teams are usually no mugs either - but I admittedly know nothing about them.

 

I am not convinced that qualifying 2nd IS a realistic minimum target for us. Some people try to convince themselves that being "big" means being "wealthy". In this day and age, for the most part, being wealthy will do far more for you than being big. We are still a HUGE club but finances in Scotland will disadvantage us, even against some of the so-called "smaller clubs" from "smaller nations".

 

We buy ONE 4 million pound player and we cant afford much else - some of the smaller clubs are spending double that and still buying more players.

 

Our standing in the game has changed - but we are still a big club.

[craig 5,199]

I see, you don't really have a point.

 

I see - as per usual, you know not how to defend your stance.