pete 2,499 Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 Pete , your missing the whole point of Rangers , I dont want to patronize you or any other fan but we are not any club , I read the gallant pioneers recently and was embaressed at how little I knew , forum's like vanguard bears are amazing though hard core they dont miss the point .The chapter on William MacBeath had me in tears on so many levels , but you wont find VB mentioned ever on FF ( banned yet again - non football this time and the last ), nor The Gallant Pioneers website. Mr Struth realised what it meant to be a Ranger , and what that sacred duty brought , unfortunately these over paid prima donna's dont Well if i am missing the whole point of Rangers then i have wasted a hell of a lot of my life. I am totally glad that you guy's came on here because i will admit i never knew much about the early history. Does knowing that history make me a better supporter than i was. No i don't think so it just makes me a better informed one. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabashcannonball 0 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Well if i am missing the whole point of Rangers then i have wasted a hell of a lot of my life. I am totally glad that you guy's came on here because i will admit i never knew much about the early history. Does knowing that history make me a better supporter than i was. No i don't think so it just makes me a better informed one. No one is saying anyone is a better or worse supporter than anyone else, only someone unsure of their own strength of allegience would broach such a view. Rangers are as I said built on traditions, it is a pleasure for me to respect those traditions. Our present incumbents use the word "tradition" all to easily and in a throw away manner, they were entrusted with a duty, which was to nurture and pass these traditions on down through the club, they have failed miserably. Rangers will still be Rangers long after they and I are gone, of that I am certain. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 I don't believe MF blamed Rangers supporters for the ills of society, he simply pointed out the change in the attitude of the support, the majority now have known nothing other than Murray. Rangers is built on tradition, some of us still hold those traditions dear...no one, manager, owner, player or fan is or ever will be bigger than or above those traditions, despite the mismanagement of Murray and divisory tactics of him and his paid cohorts. Rangers are Rangers, simples. Washbash a candle gives light but we cannot live without electricity these days. Young Rangers supporters who know nothing of Bill Struth can still be fantastic supporters. You cannot blame supporters for the mistakes that Murray made. Rangers are Rangers but unfortunately we now live in a time that players wealth seems to be more important than the health of a football club. Hopefully that will be changing soon if FIFA keep their promise. FIFA are the monster that are creating the rich and the poor. Money is the devil. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 What are these traditions? Without quoting. In practical terms? What are they and how have we came up short? I'm not saying we don't have them, I genuinly want to know. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabashcannonball 0 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 What are these traditions? Without quoting. In practical terms? What are they and how have we came up short? I'm not saying we don't have them, I genuinly want to know. I can encapsulate all of our history and tradition in one word, Rangers. Rangers are the history and the tradition, from inception, the Club came before all else, its health and well being was and should still be above that of mere mortals. It gives me no pleasure to say that the "Club above all" tenet, has been sadly diluted under the present incumbents, a sorry state of affairs indeed. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamh 0 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Admin this has went a we bit of topic 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 I can encapsulate all of our history and tradition in one word, Rangers. Rangers are the history and the tradition, from inception, the Club came before all else, its health and well being was and should still be above that of mere mortals. It gives me no pleasure to say that the "Club above all" tenet, has been sadly diluted under the present incumbents, a sorry state of affairs indeed. You are chasing Utopia mate it doesn't exist and never will. Even in the Struth days there were bad players and bad supporters. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamh 0 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Whilst not being a great lover of Beattie I will support him any time he plays in a Rangers jersey and hope he proves me and every other doubter wrong 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabashcannonball 0 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 You are chasing Utopia mate it doesn't exist and never will. Even in the Struth days there were bad players and bad supporters. You see it as utopia, I see it as respect for the traditions and history of our great Club, Rangers. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 The idea that Bill Struth couldn't have succeeded in the modern era without compromising the qualities and standards that made him one of the greatest managers in the world is, frankly, shameful. Rangers fans have become so easily dislocated from the pride of our past that it's clear Murray has succeeded in his efforts to sanitise and re-invent something that wa already too good for the likes of him. Morals don't blow out any windows. Morals are timeless. People change and it's clear to me the only problem Bill Struth would have today is trying to understand what happened to Rangers supporters. That's well written and quite stirring, but I don't know exactly what it means. What morals are timeless? What pride in the past has been santised exactly? I'm not going to disagree that Murray's been, overall, a poor custodian. I think he's ungentlemanly and fundamentally dishonest. I agree wholeheartedly that those that serve Rangers should be strong, gentlemanly and decorous. I'm proud to support a club with a long and rich tradition of that. But I'm not a Victorian; I sincerely doubt Rangers fans have ever been protestant, if that's what this tradition is. If you were in charge what would you do different? What's wrong with Rangers supporters? What did we have pre-Murray, that we don't have now? If we were more united then, what were we united around? What positive morals did we have then we don't have now? I've never known anything but Murray, but I come from a long line of Rangers supporters. Most of them can't afford a season ticket, and the whole market of who football's aimed at has changed. But what can you do? What is the better way we could be, and what could you, in practical terms, to get there? Again, not looking for a debate, I just want to know more fully what you're getting at. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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