Do we really want Smith to stay?

[Totti 0]

11 players and a few kids? Where on earth is that number coming from?

[Totti 0]

We don't have the luxury of trial and error...

I'd suggest we do given how rotten the rest of the SPL currently is.

[ascender 352]

Such negative thinking but I guess that's what we've fallen to. I'm sure there's loads of decent young managers across Europe that would love a shot at a fairly big club playing in the champions league most seasons. And if it doesn't work (a la Le Guen), try someone else.

 

We aren't going to progress under Walter.

 

Its just realistic thinking at the moment.

 

Let's say we get taken over, there's not much money to spend, but we're financially stable and we bring in a manager from Europe and task him with making us more competitive in Europe. Firstly, how long would our fans give him if things weren't going our way in the SPL, even though it looked like long term, we might be on the right track?

 

You also make it sound so simple to just get someone else. These failed ventures cost a lot of money, both in hiring, firing and any changes that manager wishes to make during his tenure, some of which also need to be undone when he leaves.

 

Part of the pressure up here for any manager will be financial in terms of having to deliver the SPL and get to the CL groups. However, there's also massive pressure from fans who accept nothing less than winning the league.

[ascender 352]

I'd suggest we do given how rotten the rest of the SPL currently is.

 

The rest of the SPL may be "rotten", but we've struggled to beat many of them this season and even when we have, its been far from convincing. Not a criticism of Walter, just an observation.

[rbr 1,247]

11 players and a few kids? Where on earth is that number coming from?

 

Walter has been going on and on about it since sunday , have a quick look at the squad , deduct the players out of contract , take away Fleck , Little etc and see what's left , oh and that's before the players that are sold

[Danny 0]

Walter is only as good as the resources he has at his disposal. None of us would deny the man's faults, but only the likes of Mourinho and Hiddink are close to flawless.

 

Only 2 and half years ago we beat Lyon, Stuttgart, drew with Barce-friggin'-lona, beat Fiorentina, Werder Bremen, Panathinaikos, and Sporting. Back then we had a significantly stronger squad which had the likes of Hutton, Cuellar, Ferguson and Cousin in it, plus an on-form Beasley. Walter achieved all that, which peaked with a visit to Manchester - a side which nonetheless punched way above its weight thanks to what Walter managed to get out of them.

 

We'd have won the league too but for the fixture backlog.

 

Nowadays we've lost a lot of the players of the calibre of these guys, and while he brought some players in in summer 2008, we're a weaker squad and team - so how do you expect 'progress' when the tools he has are inferior to the ones he had in May 2008?

 

It's all very very easy to lay the blame at Walter's door and point out 'negative' tactics, but to have 'positive' ones requires a much better and more composed calibre of player than we can currently boast. I don't trust any of our midfield to take the ball, dribble, weave, and pick out a creative pass/dictate a game - not even Davis, as good as he is. That's what Ferguson could do, and is doing again in Birmingham. But we don't have that now.

 

We have to operate within our means, and the fact we've won two leagues in a row under these circumstances should see praise for Smith, not criticism.

 

If we get new ownership, new money, and real security for the future then my expectations for 'progress' (whatever that is) will increase and I'd very much hope for the last 16 of the CL as well as the league. But the way we are currently, the SPL alone is as good as it gets and I hope we don't get slaughtered in the CL, though we probably will.

[craig 5,199]

Such negative thinking but I guess that's what we've fallen to. I'm sure there's loads of decent young managers across Europe that would love a shot at a fairly big club playing in the champions league most seasons. And if it doesn't work (a la Le Guen), try someone else.

 

We aren't going to progress under Walter.

 

We may not progress under Walter but what he DOES bring is stability. Without him we could be sailing into oblivion. Whether you like that or not it is a very real possibility.

 

Much as though I understand where the sentiment comes from with regards to moving on we simply cannot discount the importance of being domestically challenging.

 

To merely discard a "le guen" scenario as "if it doesnt work just try someone else" is very flippant. That very scenario could see us lose out on European football and the cash it brings and that could be our club's death knell.

 

Also, not sure if you knew, but after next season "playing in the champions league most seasons" will not be a likely reality either - we will have to qualify and that is fraught with dangers too.

 

Whether any of us like it or not it is absolutely critical that we stay at the top domestically for the foreseeable future - unless and until we see a change in ownership or a financial investment to reduce the debts.

 

I would love to see us challenging in Europe but we could barely do that even when we were one of, if not the, biggest spenders in Europe.

 

Plus, you also seem to be assuming that some young manager will come in and stamp his authority on the team, formation, tactics.... but how does he do this when he probably wont have any money to spend ? How does he do it with a 1st team squad of about 14 players ??

[Frankie 8,230]

I'd suggest we do given how rotten the rest of the SPL currently is.

 

I'm not a gambler I'm afraid so I'll stick with the tried and trusted for the moment...

[Totti 0]

Walter is only as good as the resources he has at his disposal. None of us would deny the man's faults, but only the likes of Mourinho and Hiddink are close to flawless.

 

Only 2 and half years ago we beat Lyon, Stuttgart, drew with Barce-friggin'-lona, beat Fiorentina, Werder Bremen, Panathinaikos, and Sporting. Back then we had a significantly stronger squad which had the likes of Hutton, Cuellar, Ferguson and Cousin in it, plus an on-form Beasley. Walter achieved all that, which peaked with a visit to Manchester - a side which nonetheless punched way above its weight thanks to what Walter managed to get out of them.

 

We'd have won the league too but for the fixture backlog.

 

Nowadays we've lost a lot of the players of the calibre of these guys, and while he brought some players in in summer 2008, we're a weaker squad and team - so how do you expect 'progress' when the tools he has are inferior to the ones he had in May 2008?

 

It's all very very easy to lay the blame at Walter's door and point out 'negative' tactics, but to have 'positive' ones requires a much better and more composed calibre of player than we can currently boast. I don't trust any of our midfield to take the ball, dribble, weave, and pick out a creative pass/dictate a game - not even Davis, as good as he is. That's what Ferguson could do, and is doing again in Birmingham. But we don't have that now.

 

We have to operate within our means, and the fact we've won two leagues in a row under these circumstances should see praise for Smith, not criticism.

 

If we get new ownership, new money, and real security for the future then my expectations for 'progress' (whatever that is) will increase and I'd very much hope for the last 16 of the CL as well as the league. But the way we are currently, the SPL alone is as good as it gets and I hope we don't get slaughtered in the CL, though we probably will.

When Walter came in he spent a lot of money and we still never played half decent football

[calscot 0]

Not long ago we were being embarrassed by teams like Unirea in Europe and the general consent was that we wanted shot of Walter but we were so skint that we may as well just keep him.

 

Now a couple of trophies later he's God again.

 

My opinion of Walter is exactly what it was a few months ago. He's a reliable, solid albeit old fashioned manager, good domestically but out of his depth in Europe.

 

He came back to steady the ship and there's been several periods where it as been steadied only for us to go on a dodgy spell again.

 

Walter has done everything he can do with the club and it's time to move on IMO. We need new ideas and I'd like to see us as a side that can play decent football and cause some problems to big teams in Europe. It doesn't take a fortune to build a half decent European side rather than one that just hopes for a 0-0 draw.

 

Everyone is saying that this season is a fantastic achievement but Celtic are so abysmal that it would have been hard not to win it. It's the worst Celtic side I've ever seen by a mile.

 

Time to move on and develop.

 

What is it that you actually want? Obviously winning a couple of trophies a season and the odd UEFA cup final is a not good enough for you and you want a manager to develop us further. Just where do we go from here?

 

Your prescription seems a bit backward seeing as we once brought in a guy who had the reputation of being the best young manager in Europe and who had already won three French championships. Well Walter has certainly moved us on and developed us from that era. We went from second place no-hopers, out of both cups to winning two trophies a year and getting to the UEFA cup final - which is where we came in.

 

In fact I'd like someone to point out a time when we've had it any better? And that's notwithstanding the money situation.

 

We couldn't even get another Le Guen if we wanted to and neither could we get another Walter. Anyone we can attract to replace him will at best be the level of Mowbray.

 

You're like a guy who's been made unemployed then found a temp job at a fraction of your previous wage but are talking about buying a brand new Ferrari while scrapping your ageing but reliably fast Lotus Elise when you can barely afford a used Fiat Cinqicento.

 

I still don't understand the embarrassment of losing to Unirea, the champions of a very good footballing country who are well above us and above Holland and Portugal in the UEFA rankings, especially after the performance on the second leg.

 

But maybe there's a host of teams that we beat in the UEFA cup, who were embarrassed, changed their managers and are now winning European trophies... Or perhaps not.

 

Walter Smith has a better record in Scotland and getting far Europe than any manager in the last 40 years, including Martin O'Neil, Dick Advocaat, Eck, PLG, Strachan, Souness etc, etc.

 

Just who is out there that can take us any further? Then mitigate that with who we can attract, who we can afford and who would take on the job in the current circumstances.

 

You have to wonder what WS needs to do to get respect from some people...

 

Walter Smith a hero? Damn right he is!