Rothen still sour?

[Danny 0]

 

Anyway, in the end I think it's strange to slag off a winning manager for not getting on with the odd player. When a manager loses the whole dressing room and badly loses the league, then there is justification for criticism. That's not happened to Walter while at Rangers.

 

.

 

Been a colourful debate and I don't have the will to keep it up, but I'll address this point.

 

Where do I slag off Walter Smith?

 

All I said was it was a significant criticism.

 

I'm sure plenty of fans have 'significant criticisms' here there and everywhere.

 

Both you and Ally are putting a bit too much importance on your own opinions here, if I may be so bold as to say. I have a small gripe, and I've made it public. You're almost saying 'how dare you'.

[Super_Ally 0]

Both you and Ally are putting a bit too much importance on your own opinions here, if I may be so bold as to say. I have a small gripe, and I've made it public. You're almost saying 'how dare you'.

 

[bmck 117]

I'm with Danny on this. It isn't slagging someone off to criticise them. The difference is register, and Danny didn't seeem to be slagging off anyone. I'm not sure, though, that I would call Walter wrong on Gow and Buffel, or Rothen for that matter - they've, none of them, went onto anything. ETA: It also isn't adding too much importance to your own opinions to disagree. Everyone thinks they are more or less right, so they're not going to speak as though they aren't.

[Danny 0]

 

I expressed my opinion and pointed it out as a minor gripe. You both have tried to persuade me, with bluster, how wrong I am.

 

If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it.

[Danny 0]

I'm with Danny on this. It isn't slagging someone off to criticise them. The difference is register, and Danny didn't seeem to be slagging off anyone. I'm not sure, though, that I would call Walter wrong on Gow and Buffel, or Rothen for that matter - they've, none of them, went onto anything.

 

I was never saying he was right or wrong, because it has worked out ok ultimately for Rangers, and that's all that matters. I am just saying, as you point out, that I am allowed to make a point of something I consider to be a criticism, if I deem it so. Doesn't mean I want Walter's head

 

ETA: It also isn't adding too much importance to your own opinions to disagree. Everyone thinks they are more or less right, so they're not going to speak as though they aren't.

 

They just appear to be feverishly delivering their condemnation with apparent gusto.

[Super_Ally 0]

I'm with Danny on this. It isn't slagging someone off to criticise them. The difference is register, and Danny didn't seeem to be slagging off anyone. I'm not sure, though, that I would call Walter wrong on Gow and Buffel, or Rothen for that matter - they've, none of them, went onto anything. ETA: It also isn't adding too much importance to your own opinions to disagree. Everyone thinks they are more or less right, so they're not going to speak as though they aren't.

 

It's not his opinion I have a problem with.

 

It's the way he airs it and a lot of fans seem to do it in a similar manner. It's not just that Smith didn't rate him and so didn't play him. No, he "scapegoated" Rothen.

 

Rothen played poorly and got dropped. Fair do's. Rangers have gone on from then to win 2 out of 3 domestic trophies. That seems to support Smith's stance.

 

Rothen has ended up at some naff team in Turkey or Cyprus or something.

[calscot 0]

Been a colourful debate and I don't have the will to keep it up, but I'll address this point.

 

Where do I slag off Walter Smith?

 

All I said was it was a significant criticism.

 

I'm sure plenty of fans have 'significant criticisms' here there and everywhere.

 

Both you and Ally are putting a bit too much importance on your own opinions here, if I may be so bold as to say. I have a small gripe, and I've made it public. You're almost saying 'how dare you'.

 

I think that's a difference in semantics, I think unfair criticism is "slagging" by definition.

 

I never said, "how dare you", I was saying that there was no foundation for your criticism. The point is, who can say that Walter freezing certain players for whatever reasons, is not one of his attributes which helps players to play in a way that wins the title?

 

If there is no fear of punishment for crossing the manager, then it's easy for him to lose respect of the dressing room.

 

I said it was strange to criticise small decisions when the results are achieved, you have no idea or evidence as to whether those decisions hindered or helped the success of Rangers.

 

One thing is clear, if they hindered then it hardly matters, seeing as we've been as successful as we've ever been in the last few years, there is good reason to think it may have helped.

 

Every manager has a style and makes day to day decisions on how to deal with players and their personalities. They have to go with their values, their assessment of the situation, what they think works and their gut instincts. In the end, they live or die in their job on their results. Walter has passed that pudding test pretty much every year he has had at Ibrox.

 

So it's not, "how dare you", it's "what are you on about?".

Edited April 12, 2010 by calscot

[andy steel 0]

Where does this 'Rothen is the scapegoat' come from? Why not 'Rothen was dropped and we staggered to wins, so he didn't get back in, plus his mystery illness didn't help, so why doesn't he shut it and stop whining?'

[metlika 0]

Where does this 'Rothen is the scapegoat' come from? Why not 'Rothen was dropped and we staggered to wins, so he didn't get back in, plus his mystery illness didn't help, so why doesn't he shut it and stop whining?'

 

He thinks he is a superstar, a few years past his best, no pace and how can you be out for 2 or 3 months with swine flu? Never had the illness myself ( hopefully never will) but flu last a few weeks most of the time so I think he tried to get out. Although probably being dropped made him annoyed as well.

[Super_Ally 0]

Where does this 'Rothen is the scapegoat' come from? Why not 'Rothen was dropped and we staggered to wins, so he didn't get back in, plus his mystery illness didn't help, so why doesn't he shut it and stop whining?'

 

Stop talking sense. That isn't wnated in this thread. :fish: