Soccer boss in sectarian sing-song

[wabashcannonball 0]

Can anyone tell me, what relationship Ulster or religion has to do with Rangers, it is apparent to students of the clubs formative history that the answer is none. Parties have aligned themselves with the club for their own reasons, Rangers cannot nor should they be held accountable for the actions of those who attempt to use the club for anything other than football.

Sectarianism has no place in the world never mind football, which ever form that sectarianism takes it cannot and never will be justified.

[Frankie 8,674]

Both Ulster and Protestantism became part of Rangers a period after the club's formation - Ure Primrose, the Clyde shipyards and the influx of Irish catholics all contributory factors from around 1890 onwards. I'm sure a few of the founding fathers were of Ulster Scots heritage also.

 

It is disingenuous to automatically link these aspects of the club and society's impact upon it with sectarianism.

[wabashcannonball 0]

That is the point Frankie, the club was not founded on that basis, this is not the place for a politico/religous discussion, but I am curious as to what is disengenuous.

[Frankie 8,674]

I don't care if the club wasn't found on that basis. Were we to exclude Ulsterman from following Rangers or Protestants from making the club their focal point in an institutional sense?

 

I'm more concerned with nowadays. The fact is Rangers are a wholly inclusive club with a wide variety of people who serve us as staff as well as supporters from all over the world. Every creed and colour is represented and we should respect everyone in that regard. Including those who want to sing about DW, the Sash or even the Flower of Scotland if they so choose.

[calscot 0]

Song choice is a very subjective issue - even outwith football - so I don't have a problem with anyone not enjoying The Sash or Derry's Walls.

 

However, these people have no right to suggest those that do enjoy them (myself included) should stop singing them because a very small minority may sing them with a different meaning to the majority.

 

In the absence of TBB, Derry's Walls is one last song that has our fans singing in their tens of thousands - home and away - and it is not offensive, is not sectarian and is certainly nothing to be embarrassed about. Personally, I'm not overly interested in Ulster (either its present or past situation) so I see the song as merely one that I can sing which tells us about our strength and pride as we go into the battle of a football match (and sometimes beyond nowadays).

 

No surrender indeed!

 

If this is aimed at me, I don't think you quite get what I'm saying. I would probably get embarrassed if my girlfriend kept singing the Birdy Song very loudly in public at irrelevant times - say during hymns or some other kind of sing song - or even at Ibrox. That does not mean I have anything against the song per se, but it's not appropriate at those times.

 

Certain songs sung at Rangers games, like The Sash, really don't have much to do with the modern day Rangers, and you'd really have to do well to convince me it's anything other than a pretty silly song at a football match. It's even a pretty weird song for most of the people singing it - about how they find some sash their father wore was really beautiful...

 

With all the religious tensions, negative press and the f.t.p add ons etc it actually goes from silly to stupid and I really don't see how you can defend that rationally. Nothing that has been said has more than a "I will sing what I want and you're not nice for saying I can't." type attitude.

 

I have already said that Derry's Walls DOES have some relevance to football in it's sentiment, although I find the clinging to the religious implications of it, also a tad strange in this day and age. The words could easily be slightly adapted to be more relevant to RFC - that's what most other club's fans do with their songs.

 

There is almost NO real connection either way with Rangers and the Protestant religion these days. For a start, following this religion, usually means turning up to church on a Sunday. It's also a religion which promotes religious tolerance and "loving thy neighbour" as well as many other positive behavours - like not swearing or blaspheming, sobriety, hard work, upstanding citizenship and charity.

 

Now there are probably many Rangers fans who have those ideals but I doubt the most vociferous about being a "Prod" really hold the New Testament to their hearts. I should think that any of the connections claimed by the typical "prod" type of fans to the Protestant church would not be warmly reciprocated.

 

Maybe I'm the only one that finds that kind of hypocrisy, a bit embarrassing...

 

I would feel a lot more comfortable with it if the fans actually practiced Protestantism and followed Bill Struth's code of conduct.

Edited December 15, 2009 by calscot

[calscot 0]

Oh dear, oh dear, let's re-write history. There are obviously two worlds that Rangers supporters inhabit. I'm gald I'm not in the same one as you and your embarassment.

 

I must agree on the two worlds point.

 

And I'm so glad I'm not in the dark, cold one, full of anger and hatred you seem to inhabit...

[calscot 0]

BTW I think some people have missed the main point of my post which I could sum up by paraphrasing Voltaire, "I don't agree with the songs you sing but I will defend your right to sing them."

 

There is also a massive difference from saying "you can't sing that" to "maybe you should try singing something more appropriate".

[Bluedell 5,679]

I don't see much difference between the Sash and Derry's Walls. Both refer to battles, both are stirring songs and both have been sung by Rangers fans for decades.

 

Oh, and both have been villified incorrectly by the press and I will not allow the press in Scotland to dictate my views or what I sing, and I don't accept that because we get negative press over it that it becomes "stupid" to sing them.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Bluedell

[Frankie 8,674]

Cal:

 

Being a member of the few dozen whom do actually still sing at Ibrox, I find your generalisations rather unfair. At Ibrox, the Sash and DW are still sung reasonably regularly (especially the latter) and I rarely (if at all) hear any add-ons when they are. Now you may not like them (and I respect your opinion and reasons for it) but others do and given our decades (or longer) club's affinity with the context of these songs, it is understandable that many others do like them.

 

Nonetheless, I agree that some (not a lot but a fair number) use such songs and their symbolism in a negative fashion. A fashion that is all too eagerly pointed out by the authorities and those hostile to our club. However, I'd say this is exaggerated to a huge degree and I don't see any reason why these songs shouldn't be sung in a general sense.

 

I use myself as the perfect example. I'm Protestant by birth but not religious although retaining an obvious affinity with that religion via various aspects of my life. I'm Scottish and British in proudly equal proportions and I retain a slight affinity with those that are Irish/British and support my club. As I would if they were French, Dutch or Irish Catholic. As a result of both these aspects of my personality, I like to sing songs that - strictly speaking - probably have little relevance to me or my football club. That's because I interpret them in a different way as will be the case with everyone who sings them. Ergo, I don't consider myself (or the songs) as embarrassing, uncomfortable, intolerant, stupid, weird or irrational. Just an individual who enjoys singing harmless songs to increase my enjoyment of a football game.

 

And here's another aspect of why I sing them. To annoy others. Yes, I admit it; I like a bit of banter at the fitba and singing these songs (and others) contributes to the side of the game that is being lost by politically correct people intent on sanitising our game to a higher level than the toilets in our hospitals.

 

Indeed, one could suggest such people are as embarrassing, uncomfortable, intolerant, stupid, weird or irrational as those they want to insult.

[calscot 0]

The thing is Frankie, Celtic fans could say pretty much the same thing with pretty much a lot of their repertoire which goes down so badly with our support.

 

It kind of makes a mockery of the blue interpretation of the Famine song - ie it's saying they are plastic paddies. But that again becomes a bit hypocritical when you main justification for singing certain songs is either being a plastic proddie or plastic OO member.

 

It makes the whole rationale behind the singing from both sides start to get lost up its own bum.

 

In the end it sounds a bit gauche like Gordon Ramsay saying the F word every three seconds. It just seems to me that if the laughably called "history" (in that it was way before the Scottish league) is so contentious and causing us so much trouble why not just drop it for modern football songs that slag off our rivals for who they actually are?

 

After all, if Ramsay was being threatened with being pulled from TV, I'm sure he'd be clever enough to tone it down and find other expletives.

 

I really don't see how I'm being intolerant any more than I'm being intolerant of say chavs just because I think they are a bit cringe-worthy.

 

Many on here find the TA in Jimmy wigs embarrassing - are they being intolerant?

 

Look, you can sing a song about how beautiful your father's sash is at a football match to increase your enjoyment and wind people up, but do you really expect people to think it's clever in the slightest?

 

To me it's a very tired, ancient joke that lost it's funniness a long time ago. Maybe it's time to make up a new one for modern times.