calscot 0 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Cal, a simple rebuttal is that you saw the comparison to the EPL teams but completely looked beyond the fact that our points total is the lowest ANY British team has had in the CL. So ignoring the top 4 in the EPL our points total is the worst any SCOTTISH team has had too. There is no need to compare to the EPL to prove we were utter dross in the CL this year. If you just look at the 6 games we were poor over the piece. Stuttgart away - crap first half, decent 2nd half Seville home - decent 1st half, imploded 2nd half Unirea home - pretty poor throughout Unirea away - not a particularly good performance either Stuttgart home - 90 minutes of torture Seville away - 1 shot at goal all game says it all So in 6 games (12 halves) of football we played half decent in 2 halves and even being charitable most wouldn't say as much as 4. That is crap in anyone's terms. We dont need to compare to the EPL teams to see that. But it looks to me that you conveniently picked up on the EPL comparison and completely ignored that the statement also compared us to SPL teams. Ah but I didn't ignore the Scottish part of it, I just thought it strange that anyone would compare us to the English teams. I just didn't have an issue with the Scottish part. However, when you compare our performances to that of the rest of Scottish football, is it really that surprising we're out of our depth in the rarefied atmosphere of the CL? Is it really the manager's fault or could it be a result of the current state of our game? At the moment as I've explained elsewhere, I really can't see how the champions of a very small, unhealthy and sedate country who are not boosted by TV money or local talent can hope to compete in the CL. We were able to do so -very slightly before, by coming from a relatively rich country with lots of paying fans through the gates and at a time where English football was on a pretty bad low. Even our biggest ever spend with our biggest named manager at a time when we were not so poor in relation to so many other teams, we didn't exactly do that well. So why should we be judged so harshly now. It all seems to reflect our current, natural position. Just where is the criticism aimed? I also disagree with some of the synopsis of our performances, and like I've written elsewhere would propose that with better luck we could have feasibly qualified for the next round. Our two points do not exactly reflect the true performances of the games - as often happens in football. As said before, with a bit of luck in front of goal with our many good attacks at the end of the first Stuttgart game could have easily given us a win. Decent refereeing or TV replays at home to Seville could easily have allowed us to achieve a draw. A better taken penalty an some bigger deflections and not scoring an own goal could have plausibly given us a win against Unirea in a game where we may not have played well but up to the second Unirea goal we still looked comfortably the less crap team. Against Unirea away we quite obviously should have won but for a Novo mistake and a wonder strike. The other two games we didn't deserve anything. However, we're talking about 8 points lost on a knife edge of luck - perhaps that evens out our luck on the UEFA final run but our good luck there did not seem to be of such an obvious species. To me judging us so severely on 6 games against top teams from countries of higher UEFA ranking at a time when our football is in the mire, our finances down the toilet, when we haven't signed a player for about 18 months and taking into account the mitigation above, has got to be a bit harsh and not really particularly useful. However, comparing us negatively with the English top four is really going to town. We both said from the beginning of the season that any results in the CL would be a bonus more than anything. But others seem to think that it's some kind of failure that we're not taking Europe by storm which to me smacks of ignoring the current situation at Rangers and in Scotland. Unless something changes dramatically in favour of Scottish football, I can't see things getting any better and in fact just qualifying for the CL at all may become a relatively large achievement. Thinking that by merely bringing in the likes of Levein or Davies would have brought us far better results to me is completely missing all the above points and I'm finding a lot of the shots against us, pretty cheap. Edited December 13, 2009 by calscot 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 PS Thanks for a real rebuttal. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 PS Thanks for a real rebuttal. Touche... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totti 0 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 The British comparison includes Blackburn Rovers who had a humiliating campaign in the CL in 95/96 yet still amassed double our points total. See, we can all play the pedantic shit stirrer game. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabashcannonball 0 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Smiths recent record in Europe. SMITH'S EURO RECORD SINCE 2007 30 games in Uefa Cup and Champions League 9 wins (including penalty shoot-out win over Fiorentina) 11 defeats 10 draws 53 points dropped from a possible 90 points, points accrued 37. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Those stats looks pretty average for Rangers when compared to our all time record... I don't think anyone thinks Walter is the best manager for European competition and that is what expedited his exit the first time round. But he has still provided our best EC/CL run, and best UEFA cup run in our history - I think that makes a huge point - there are very few managers we've had that outshine him in any way. However, with the way finances are today, European success now seems light years away no matter who we have as manager. The best we can hope for from now on, is to qualify for the CL and then drop into the Europa cup and have a good run. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabashcannonball 0 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Willie Waddell won the cup winners cup in '72, by rote that makes WW Rangers most successful manager in europe. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totti 0 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Those stats looks pretty average for Rangers when compared to our all time record... I don't think anyone thinks Walter is the best manager for European competition and that is what expedited his exit the first time round. But he has still provided our best EC/CL run, and best UEFA cup run in our history - I think that makes a huge point - there are very few managers we've had that outshine him in any way. However, with the way finances are today, European success now seems light years away no matter who we have as manager. The best we can hope for from now on, is to qualify for the CL and then drop into the Europa cup and have a good run. 2 years of success and countless years of 100% failure. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 2 years of success and countless years of 100% failure. Can't disagree with that. But I think that's been Rangers since 1972... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totti 0 Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 edit - wrong topic 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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