Danny 0 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I was definitely one of those who underestimated how good Sevilla are. I proposed them as being a top 15 European side while now I have to say they're comfortably in the top 10. They are a fantastic, fantastic team blessed with an abundance of world class players who truly play as a team. They're very much the modern form of the great Mendieta Valencia side who humbled us back in '99. So in this sense, being outclassed by a team of this quality is excusable. The problem for me is that it felt like an insult to their stadium and fans last night that such appalling footballers as us were their guests. It's not just that we're not good enough to handle Sevilla - hell, Real Madrid struggled to do so and lost at the same ground. The problem for me, wherever it happens to stem from, is that our club as a whole is out of its depth against any half competent team, whether it is a European side or a mediocre SPL one. Our excruciating inability to play football, to link up, to dominate possession, to look at ease on the ball, to comfortably defend, to pass and move, to create several good chances...against all but the worst teams is beyond the pale. I'm not even attributing blame anywhere, mainly as I'm unsure where it would exist, I just feel helpless and incredulous seeing how below average as a team we have become. Even in Eck's day we had guys like Kygiakos, Buffel, Ferguson, Lovenkrands and Prso who all looked a class above and at their level in the CL - we simply have no one of the quality of what these guys were, and for a club of the supposed grand nature of Rangers, it's unforgiveable. Last night made a bad team look atrocious - and a world class team look like Gods. Until we get money, this is as good as it gets. And that's sickening. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totti 0 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) Sevilla aren't a big spending club either, they made it where they are today because they have excellent infrastructure, with I think near 100 scouts all over the world. Compare that to us. Sevilla sell a player and have one waiting in the reserves or youth team. I really wish 10 years ago our board did one thing right and spent money on long term things like coaching, scouting etc. At the same time though, nothing should come as a shock to anyone. We've been pish for years. We might have been winning trophies domestically last season but our performances showed the quality we have. Being played off the park by Falkirk in last year's Scottish Cup Final was a clear indicator of our level. Edited December 10, 2009 by Totti 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 0 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sevilla aren't a big spending club either, they made it where they are today because they have excellent infrastructure, with I think near 100 scouts all over the world. Compare that to us. Sevilla sell a player and have one waiting in the reserves or youth team. I really wish 10 years ago our board did one thing right and spent money on long term things like coaching, scouting etc. At the same time though, nothing should come as a shock to anyone. We've been pish for years. We might have been winning trophies domestically last season but our performances showed the quality we have. Being played off the park by Falkirk in last year's Scottish Cup Final was a clear indicator of our level. The quality of our squad has been declining since Advocaat departed. It's been a decade long degradation - from having the likes of de Boer, GVB, Mols and even Amoruso, to the current lot of total workmen. There has been no overhaul, just painting over cracks. The overhaul this club needs is new ownership, but that seems far off. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,270 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sevilla aren't a big spending club either, they made it where they are today because they have excellent infrastructure, with I think near 100 scouts all over the world. Compare that to us. Sevilla sell a player and have one waiting in the reserves or youth team. I really wish 10 years ago our board did one thing right and spent money on long term things like coaching, scouting etc. At the same time though, nothing should come as a shock to anyone. We've been pish for years. We might have been winning trophies domestically last season but our performances showed the quality we have. Being played off the park by Falkirk in last year's Scottish Cup Final was a clear indicator of our level. Totti I totally agree and unfortunately this has always been the case , I can remember back to the NIAR team when we had a truly reat squad but in europe we were continually humiliated by the likes of AEK , Grasshoppers ,Strasbourg , Levski Sofia , Auxerre , christ the list goes on and on , yet if we beat Celtc on the saturday everyhing was brilliant 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The quality of our squad has been declining since Advocaat departed. It's been a decade long degradation - from having the likes of de Boer, GVB, Mols and even Amoruso, to the current lot of total workmen. There has been no overhaul, just painting over cracks. The overhaul this club needs is new ownership, but that seems far off. This is an incredibly erroneous complaint which lacks any insight and nursing it will only bring you grief. Advocaat's spending put us 70M into debt - we basically couldn't afford it so how can it be surprising that when player prices have gone up 3 fold, and our financial standing in Europe has tumbled due to lack of TV money, that we have a "declining" squad? You could max out your credit card on a holiday of a lifetime and in the subsequent years your quality of holiday will decline while you pay back the money and vow never to go back into so much debt again. We can NEVER constructively compare any squad with that of Advocaat's. To make any real comparison to now you have to compare squads of times when money was difficult. Grossly overspending will always cause subsequent decline and sometimes the death of a club, it is not something to aspire to repeat. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,270 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 This is an incredibly erroneous complaint which lacks any insight and nursing it will only bring you grief. Advocaat's spending put us 70M into debt - we basically couldn't afford it so how can it be surprising that when player prices have gone up 3 fold, and our financial standing in Europe has tumbled due to lack of TV money, that we have a "declining" squad? You could max out your credit card on a holiday of a lifetime and in the subsequent years your quality of holiday will decline while you pay back the money and vow never to go back into so much debt again. We can NEVER constructively compare any squad with that of Advocaat's. To make any real comparison to now you have to compare squads of times when money was difficult. Grossly overspending will always cause subsequent decline and sometimes the death of a club, it is not something to aspire to repeat. Calscot whilst I agree in principle with your view our net spending under Advocatt was under �£20 million , it was the ridiculous contracts that Murray was handing out , many times against medical opinion I may add , that got us into trouble 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,429 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) rbr, here is DA's spending season by season, against the income from sold players. Season Expenditure Income Profit/Loss Balance 1998/99 -�£32,400,000 �£4,500,000 -�£27,900,000 -�£27,900,000 1999/00 -�£9,300,000 �£8,150,000 -�£1,150,000 -�£29,050,000 2000/01 -�£30,500,000 �£18,075,000 -�£12,425,000 -�£41,475,000 2001/02 -�£11,100,000 �£4,000,000 -�£7,100,000 -�£48,575,000 Totals -�£83,300,000 �£34,725,000 -48,575,000 Yearly Ave -�£23,800,000 �£16,228,571 -�£13,878,571 From a spreadsheet someone done on all transfers from Souness to McLeish. I can send it to you by pm if you want to send me your email addy. Just seen the way this has come out and not too clear, sorry for that but you can probably make out the figs ok. Edited December 10, 2009 by Tannochsidebear adding last sentence 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 0 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 This is an incredibly erroneous complaint which lacks any insight I find this a staggeringly insulting comment. and nursing it will only bring you grief. Advocaat's spending put us 70M into debt - we basically couldn't afford it so how can it be surprising that when player prices have gone up 3 fold, and our financial standing in Europe has tumbled due to lack of TV money, that we have a "declining" squad? You could max out your credit card on a holiday of a lifetime and in the subsequent years your quality of holiday will decline while you pay back the money and vow never to go back into so much debt again. Walter Smith has spent somewhere between �£30M & �£40M on players in his second spell. We can NEVER constructively compare any squad with that of Advocaat's. To make any real comparison to now you have to compare squads of times when money was difficult. Grossly overspending will always cause subsequent decline and sometimes the death of a club, it is not something to aspire to repeat. I'll address this point when you've addressed the one regarding Smith's quite comparible spending with Advocaat's, and how it fits your argument. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 0 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Calscot whilst I agree in principle with your view our net spending under Advocatt was under �£20 million , it was the ridiculous contracts that Murray was handing out , many times against medical opinion I may add , that got us into trouble Quite honestly, the source of the lavish spending isn't the point, nor is the fact that it put us in debt. My simple point was that his squad was the last time we had class in our team, and we've been declining ever since. If we're not allowed to compare our current squad and club with past ones because of different economic climates, then I guess discussion on the entire subject is null and void. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,270 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 rbr, here is DA's spending season by season, against the income from sold players. Season Expenditure Income Profit/Loss Balance 1998/99 -�£32,400,000 �£4,500,000 -�£27,900,000 -�£27,900,000 1999/00 -�£9,300,000 �£8,150,000 -�£1,150,000 -�£29,050,000 2000/01 -�£30,500,000 �£18,075,000 -�£12,425,000 -�£41,475,000 2001/02 -�£11,100,000 �£4,000,000 -�£7,100,000 -�£48,575,000 Totals -�£83,300,000 �£34,725,000 -48,575,000 Yearly Ave -�£23,800,000 �£16,228,571 -�£13,878,571 From a spreadsheet someone done on all transfers from Souness to McLeish. I can send it to you by pm if you want to send me your email addy. Just seen the way this has come out and not too clear, sorry for that but you can probably make out the figs ok. No worries mate I stand corrected , even with flo and Gazza going later my figures are no wher near that , I doff my cap 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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