Apologies, 3 Points and Parties

[craig 5,199]

Sorry Craig that statement is such a dumper on what an organisation is set up for. If you agree good. If you don't then fuck off. Sorry that gives no hope for the future at all.

 

I didnt say it gives hope for the future, far from it.

 

And would you not agree that the above is exactly why there are so many issues still surrounding the Trust ?

 

It also happens in many, many companies worldwide - they will have that attitude. You should be used to it by now. Doesnt mean you like it right enough.

 

Anyway, this topic really is boring me now so I am.... OUT

[Zappa 0]

Sorry Craig that statement is such a dumper on what an organisation is set up for. If you agree good. If you don't then fuck off.

That's basically what the case is with the talk of the town though - the fan ownership subject. If you don't agree with the idea then it doesn't concern you in the minds of those touting it. Not exactly a democratic start to a supposed democratic system to save the club, is it??

[maineflyer 0]

No we dont. We want to know, but we dont need to know.

 

How many times has a manager left a club through "mutual agreement" yet we all know that to be false ? That is the public line and that is where it ends.

 

There really isnt an obligation on those who resigned nor the Trust to make that public. If members dont like that then they should ask for a refund if life members or simply not renew if they are annual members.

Craig, I'm actually quite disturbed that someone as intelligent as you could put so little store in openness and honesty. I can only assume you're taking this view on the basis of personal loyalties because it's inconceivable you actually believe what you're posting.

[Zappa 0]

Craig, I'm actually quite disturbed that someone as intelligent as you could put so little store in openness and honesty. I can only assume you're taking this view on the basis of personal loyalties because it's inconceivable you actually believe what you're posting.

He's an accountant.... :devil:

[maineflyer 0]

He's an accountant.... :devil:

 

Then he's cooking his own books. There is no way he or anyone else can justify the position of secrecy that has been adopted .... and still propose a democratic system of fan ownership. You can live in or out of the shadows but you can't have it both ways. Making contrived arguments to support secrecy and re-naming it as privacy is plain bollocks.

[pete 2,499]

What a fuss. But why?

 

Why is it suddenly a threat to privacy to ask those involved to clarify what happened? Why would anyone possibly feel threatened by revealing the truth?

 

Let's be absolutely clear about this. Those involved stood for, held and resigned from public office. This isn't some secret society we're talking about here, it's the Rangers Supporters Trust and, unless I've got this wrong, we're all Rangers Supporters. Many of us were or still are members of that organisation and were always denied the facts we should have been given as a matter of course. Instead, we were fed meaningless shite and kept in the dark. This was as much an ommission of those who resigned as those who remained in office and it sums up the attitude that condemned the Trust to failure from the outset. It is an attitude that continues to see the board of the Trust hold themselves above and beyond their membership and is why so many of us have concluded that the RST is run by and for a small elite group to the exclusion of it's core mission.

 

Personally, I share the views of Pete that those who resigned had a duty of care to the RST mambership to offer a full explanation of why they resigned in such numbers and to give the membership an opportunity to assume an informed opinion on the whole episode. I believe it was a grave mistake to adopt the outwardly pious stance of wishing "to spend more time with their families", if you catch my drift. Both sides in this affair put themselves and their personal reputations before the interests of the people they had undertaken to represent and that, quite franky, was and remains unacceptable.

 

Og course these views have become diluted by virtue of various personal friendships and loyalties, by the knowledge that (for example) Gersnet's and RM's own Frankie is one of those who chose to keep the affair under wraps. That causes us to offer excuses for and accommodate the secrecy, even transforming it somehow into an altogether inappropriate commodity called privacy. However, the RST is not a private party and those involved had not right to regards the resignations as private in the first place. There is no excuse for the lack of information that was offered by way of explanation and that's a simple fact.

 

It almost beggars belief that the inclination to deny openness runs so deep through every aspect of this community of ours. Much as I've come to respect his views and motives, I genuinely believe Frankie is making a huge mistake by continuing to deflect from this issue. This simply perpetuates and builds upon the most fundamental problems we have - dishonesty and mistrust.

 

It's not exactly rocket science to understand why the incumbent RST board might not wish to reveal the facts behind those resignations but isn't it absurd that those of us in the wider Rangers community continue to be denied a basis on which to judge all of those involved on both sides.

 

While we agree in general MF this is not for Frankie to come out on his own on this. This has to do with the RST and not the Gersnet. What i will say and i honestly believe is that it is not too late for these people and the RST current board to start looking where the earthquake line was and for discussions to happen to get everyone united again. If we really want everyone on board then the RST have to realise that the public opinion is so much against them that they have to try and turn thing around. The split has to be repaired.

[Zappa 0]

Then he's cooking his own books. There is no way he or anyone else can justify the position of secrecy that has been adopted .... and still propose a democratic system of fan ownership. You can live in or out of the shadows but you can't have it both ways. Making contrived arguments to support secrecy and re-naming it as privacy is plain bollocks.

Accountant in Bermuda! :fish:

[maineflyer 0]

While we agree in general MF this is not for Frankie to come out on his own on this. This has to do with the RST and not the Gersnet. What i will say and i honestly believe is that it is not too late for these people and the RST current board to start looking where the earthquake line was and for discussions to happen to get everyone united again. If we really want everyone on board then the RST have to realise that the public opinion is so much against them that they have to try and turn thing around. The split has to be repaired.

 

Pete, if i remember correctly, they weren't able to resign together so it's unlikely they'll be any more able or willing to act together now. No one is asking any of them to "come out" , simply to let the truth out. How hard can that be? I'm not interested in their split being repaired, simply that someone, somewhere realises that in order to represent Rangers fans you first have to have a conviction of honesty and integrity - and an occasional inclination to put those fans before personal issues.

 

Maybe this is what they're missing.........

 

 

[Super_Ally 0]

I got bored reading the thread so i'll summarise.

 

Essentially (and I say nothing no one doesn't know) an RST meeting was arranged (presumably by Mark Dingwall) in the absence of Frankie and a few others. The reason for this meeting, ultimately, was to help MD seize control of the RST whilst ousting Malcolm McNiven (I think) and a few others who didn't toe Mark's party line. This all occurred around the time that the trust were getting close to getting a fan on the board and MD wanted it to be him or someone he could influence.

 

This RST EGM meeting, that occured in spite of or against the wishes of (at least certainly in the absence of) the people MD wanted rid of on the RST board occurred. When Frankie etc found out, they were left in an untenable (sp) position and felt like they had to quit.

 

Just prior to this, the RST were the strongest they had been. Their quitting left a "strong" RST in the hands of MD etc. Fortunately, he and his cronies managed to fuck that up. And since then it's been a downward slope.

 

Apologies if I missed something out.

 

Someone on here recently stated that if the current RST board really had Rangers interests above their own they'd step down right away if it helped achieve aims such as a fan on the board. In the case of Frankie, those ex-board members and even UCB I believe that to be the case. Unfortunately I do no believe that MD has the interests of Rangers above himself and that is borne out by his actions. See the STS report as a good example.

[Zappa 0]

Compasses don't work in the triangle! :fish:

 

Sorry, I'm not helping at all am I.