Zappa 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 But is it really too much to ask to give the united body a chance to work this through with our support? No, it's not too much to ask at all & if it's as you say that it's a 'united body', then the fans need to be shown that it actually IS a united body. I don't have the answer to how that can be achieved, but what I do know is that telling the fans that the RST is the 'vehicle' to a new Rangers FC is not the same as telling them that a united body is leading the way in a fan ownership scheme. Maybe I'm jumping the gun here based on UCB's 'RST is the vehicle for change' comment, but if so then words should be chosen carefully if there's now a 'united body' working on this because it should surely be the new body which is the vehicle & not the RST themselves. Or am I overly confusing this? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Are you saying that even if the people in the RST with colleagues in the Assembly and Association come up with an investment vehicle that is legally and financially watertight, that is backed and managed by associates with impeccible personal & professional credibility, that is designed to filter large amounts of supporters cash into the future of Rangers FC and free it from the threatening clutches of the bank .... you predict epic fail simply because the RST is involved? No, that's not what I'm saying & you didn't answer any of my questions! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union City Blue 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 No, it's not too much to ask at all & if it's as you say that it's a 'united body', then the fans need to be shown that it actually IS a united body. I don't have the answer to how that can be achieved, but what I do know is that telling the fans that the RST is the 'vehicle' to a new Rangers FC is not the same as telling them that a united body is leading the way in a fan ownership scheme. Maybe I'm jumping the gun here based on UCB's 'RST is the vehicle for change' comment, but if so then words should be chosen carefully if there's now a 'united body' working on this because it should surely be the new body which is the vehicle & not the RST themselves. Or am I overly confusing this? There are 3 main supporters bodies and they are united on this issue. As fan-ownership is, by definition, the 'territory' of a Supporters Trust it is only natural that the existing mechanisms to raise cash to buy shares sit 'on that side of the fence', if you will. Let me re-phrase it - the Trust will shortly be in a position to provide the actual financial vehicle, as well as playing an important part in the publicity and promotion of it. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union City Blue 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 What if the majority of Rangers fans support the concept of fan ownership of the club, but most of those who support that idea don't see the current RST as being their preferred 'vehicle for change' as you put it UCB? Then the initiative may fail. Are there any discussions about the creation of a brand new vehicle that all fans groups including the RST & other interested parties could give backing to & unite within under a new roof? Not to my knowledge. Each organisation is constitutionally established and their terms are on the various websites. Or is it a case of the RST are the vehicle, end of story & you can either climb aboard & enjoy the ride or not be involved in the new Rangers order at all? The RST (with support from colleagues in the Assembly and Association) is putting together a "vehicle". If somebody else wants to do the same, I'm sure they will. The RST is hardly going to go to the effort of putting together a proposal and at the same time offer an alternative proposal they're not involved with. Is it not potentially damaging to the chances of success of your forthcoming appeal to the Rangers fans to tell them - 'here is our idea, this is what we need to do to save Rangers Football Club, the RST is you leader, join us'?? I don't know - we are doing what we think is most beneficial for Rangers. Just some thoughts UCB because I can see epic fail written on the horizon if you're going to tell the Rangers support that the current RST is the 'vehicle for change'. It doesn't matter how much you bang on about the RST having changed, being reinvigorated or how we should all move on & forget the problems, division & mistrust of the past; most people just won't buy it & more importantly won't buy into the scheme. JMHO! Please can you answer my question about quantifying this part of your post? OK, I'll try again ^^^^^ Please could you answer my questions too? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Zappa, forgive me for interjecting as your comments are really directed to UCB, but all the fans groups are united on this. To my knowledge there are only 3 fans groups that are organised and exist both online and offline. The RST, Assembly and Association. All 3 are party to these discussions and are united in trying to launch this scheme. So say you and I start the "Rangers Supporters Solution" tomorrow. Who do we attract as members? How do we raise funds for our PR campaign? Do we start our own forums and website? How do we get ordinary bears to know who we are and what we are about. What gives us the right to say to bears, forget the RST and the Assmebly, we are the only show in town now? I want to address this point as well mate. I wasn't suggesting that any Tom, Dick or Harry starts up a new supporters group. What I was suggesting is that the 'united body' of the existing fans groups call themselves something new based on their unity in the plan of a fan ownership scheme. It wouldn't be too different in principle to a group of companies coming under a united title apart from the financial aspects. Initially the new 'body' or 'group' would probably work just as it is just now, with representatives from each of the existing groups gathering together, but with the eventual aim of those positions (call it a board) being elected by the 50,000+ members of the new body. Btw, it should seriously be considered that to gather sufficient membership numbers & attempt to get them involved in the whole process, that membership should initially be free of charge. That doesn't help the club financially in the short term, but there has to be a way to get as many people involved as possible & IMO that is the way to do it. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Please could you answer my questions too? I already did though! You asked me to answer a second question based on something else you asked me being the case, but I told you it wasn't, so the second question didn't need answered. Go back and read it again. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 There are people living in fantasy land here. Withering calls to arms in the name of unity, as if unity was something that will automatically right every wrong at Ibrox, if only we would link arms and fall in behind these dreamers. We don't even have a plan but already we're talking about voting for a board of directors. We've no means of raising any money but we're already owners and running the club. Some people need to slow down and come up with tangible details before they start coveting support. They also need a severe reality check when it comes to asking fans to follow the lead of individuals who have shown themselves to be serial incompetents and self-promoters. As usual they're trying to generate interest and accolade without revealing any concrete plans for consideration. This "believe in me" crap is an insult and it will cut no mustard with the people who are selling the club or contemplating buying it. If this is the best the Trust can come up with then they will continue to be held in the same contempt as always by the people they will have to deal with, and they will deserve it. I don't have a plan either but I'm asking no one to believe I do. As and when the RST or anyone else has a plan then that will be the time to step forward and ask for the attention of supporters. Until then it would be a good idea to change leadership and keep quiet. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Some people need to slow down and come up with tangible details before they start coveting support. Pretty much what BD has said I think. Once you have something to ask people to fall in in support of and once you reveal the grand plan, then canvas for support. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union City Blue 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I already did though! You asked me to answer a second question based on something else you asked me being the case, but I told you it wasn't, so the second question didn't need answered. Go back and read it again. oh....never mind 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) S_A, I'm guessing this is just forum based market research in the form of discussion. Edited November 15, 2009 by Zappa 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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