The SPL without Rangers

[Tannochsidebear 2,403]

I have always been, and will always remain, totally opposed to us leaving our domestic league behind and joining either an English league, or any make-up of a Euro league as our bread and butter.

 

We are a Scottish club, have a long and proud history in the Scottish game, and our loyal fans are mainly based in this country, as should be the case.

 

The money coming from Sky which has moved our neighbouring league from just a bit better than us to a different planet from us, is what is obviously driving people's greed to try to get a slice of the bloated pie.

 

If the EPL were allowed to bring in one or two teams to their league from outside England, why would they choose us, and not Ajax, PSV, or Lyon?

 

All these clubs will also be looking enviously to the EPL's riches and would probably jump at the chance of earning that type of TV money that they cant get near in their own countries.

 

OK, we are England's closest neighbour geographically, and obviously we are all British, but British is not recognised in football, the home nations are all independant, so France and Holland are both just across the channel from England, and could have the same argument to join the EPL.

 

I am not worried about how we would do if we joined the EPL, as we would soon find our feet, have a foreign mega-bucks owner and pay nearly �£1000 for a season ticket to watch players we will still complain about not being good enough despie their �£100Kpw wages.

 

This is about our identity, and our place in the world. I accept that in the current way of things commercially, we cannot compete for players or squad depth with the rich clubs from the big 4 leagues.

 

So do we cry about this, or find our place in the big scheme, of things, do things as well as we can with our running of the club, maintain our position as our country's premier club, and try to get as far as we can in European competition, in whatever tournament that may be.

 

That is not giving up or being unambitious, but a reality check of the way the game has gone, and we must adjust our own vision to be able to make the most of what we have got. If we can improve our own running of the club, and the club can put pressure on those to ensure the game in Scotland is run professionally by those at the SPL and SFA, then we might just get somewhere, but that somewhere IMO, is not outwith the domestic game in Scotland.

[calscot 0]

Let's not forget that although the EPL is awash with cash atm, it might not always be thus. I doubt many people foresaw the European ban following Heysel; you just don't know what's round the corner.

 

It has to be said, though, that the Scottish football model has had it's day, and is in drastic need on an overhaul. I can't see any way you can re-arrange the current teams into something interesting, so I guess it will have to be some kind of pan-Euro thing. I worry, though, that we'll be emphatically in the secon tier at best.

 

The trouble is that even if you rearrange the SPL to make it the most exciting league in the world, it won't make any difference.

 

The fact is that England have a paying TV audience taken from a 52M population whereas ours is from 5M.

 

What makes a league full of cash now is a rich country, with a large population, who love football.

 

Scotland is just not in that category and so the only way to get on the gravy train would be to join England, team up with other European countries in the same position or be part of a European league.

 

TV audience size is now the deciding factor and there is virtually nothing Rangers can do about that domestically.

[Gribz 791]

I have always been, and will always remain, totally opposed to us leaving our domestic league behind and joining either an English league, or any make-up of a Euro league as our bread and butter.

 

We are a Scottish club, have a long and proud history in the Scottish game, and our loyal fans are mainly based in this country, as should be the case.

 

The money coming from Sky which has moved our neighbouring league from just a bit better than us to a different planet from us, is what is obviously driving people's greed to try to get a slice of the bloated pie.

 

If the EPL were allowed to bring in one or two teams to their league from outside England, why would they choose us, and not Ajax, PSV, or Lyon?

 

All these clubs will also be looking enviously to the EPL's riches and would probably jump at the chance of earning that type of TV money that they cant get near in their own countries.

 

OK, we are England's closest neighbour geographically, and obviously we are all British, but British is not recognised in football, the home nations are all independant, so France and Holland are both just across the channel from England, and could have the same argument to join the EPL.

 

I am not worried about how we would do if we joined the EPL, as we would soon find our feet, have a foreign mega-bucks owner and pay nearly �£1000 for a season ticket to watch players we will still complain about not being good enough despie their �£100Kpw wages.

 

This is about our identity, and our place in the world. I accept that in the current way of things commercially, we cannot compete for players or squad depth with the rich clubs from the big 4 leagues.

 

So do we cry about this, or find our place in the big scheme, of things, do things as well as we can with our running of the club, maintain our position as our country's premier club, and try to get as far as we can in European competition, in whatever tournament that may be.

 

That is not giving up or being unambitious, but a reality check of the way the game has gone, and we must adjust our own vision to be able to make the most of what we have got. If we can improve our own running of the club, and the club can put pressure on those to ensure the game in Scotland is run professionally by those at the SPL and SFA, then we might just get somewhere, but that somewhere IMO, is not outwith the domestic game in Scotland.

 

I see your point but we are going backwards playing in the SPL at the moment. We are being held back. If the OF move to a Euro league or down south the potential for us would be ridiculous.

 

The fact Cardiff, Swansea, wrexham and formerly Merthyr Tydvil played in the English leagues is the argument I have for us moving down south. Those teams were always in the lower tiers of the league but Cardiff and Swansea have advanced greatly recently and are probably easy on par with the OF for wages etc. The potential those clubs have now are huge and if Cardiff can get promoted they could become a big team in the Premier League.

[Guest enigmablue]

EPL just a smokescreen for a better european format.

[Bluedell 5,560]

I don't see our identity changing or being questioned if we joined an English league.

 

The big difference betwen us and Holland or France is that we ARE part of the UK. It may not be currently recognised in football, although UEFA have given some acknowledgement of it when it comes to the Chapmpions League in the past.

 

The fact that we are legally part of the same country makes all the difference as far as I'm concerned.

 

We have been an integral part of the Scottish game, but there's no reason why we can't change. We need to evolve as a club and I don't see why part of that evolution can't be to test ourselves more in a far better league.

 

I don't see the standard of other teams in the SPL improving, apart from the odd blip, and the bottom line is that it's boring, and will continue to be.

 

I'd love for us to escape the mediocrity of Scottish football and be challenged every week. However I just don't see it happening any time soon.

[Tannochsidebear 2,403]

Although we are part of the UK, in footballing terms we are just as seperated from England as France or Holland, and that is the point I was making.

 

Look at the fuss created just to put in an U23 team for the Olympics. All home nations FA's were having kittens at the thought of losing their identity, and were vehemently opposed to any team that could call into question their independance.

 

Are the SFA going to allow us just to leave our league to go to England on the argument that we are all British anyway? No chance of that, and popular opinion in this country would defend them all the way, as would the media who would be out of jobs if football could be covered nationally (UK) from London.

 

I am suggesting we stop making excuses for our predicament, and start using the positives to run our club properly, represent our nation proudly in European competition, and be in a decent position if the Sky bubble bursts and all EPL clubs are bankrupt.

 

We can be a decent club on the European stage, as we have always been, from within our own domestic league, and we should be encouraging the other clubs to try to get to our level, rather than write them all off and try to leave for what is fashionable now, but may not always be such.

 

And last but by no means least, to put our fans first, and ensure that we dont have regular 1000 mile round trips, some of which during the working week. It is us, the match-going fans, that should be considered more than anything else, as without us, there is not much left.

[calscot 0]

I am suggesting we stop making excuses for our predicament, and start using the positives to run our club properly, represent our nation proudly in European competition, and be in a decent position if the Sky bubble bursts and all EPL clubs are bankrupt.

 

This is a good point. Whenever there is a boom, there is usually a bust. There could be plenty of clubs going the way of Leeds if a big cut in income comes about.

 

There is a great case for ignoring the EPL and instead get our finances properly in order, cut our cloth accordingly, concentrate on dominating domestically and competing to some extent in Europe on the income we do have.

 

We could then be in a very strong position if or when the big leagues have their crisis.

 

This way we won't be seeing 1000-2000 pound season tickets and ordinary fans being priced out of the game.

 

To help this we also need a complete overhaul of investment in grass roots football, with the SPL, SFA and Scottish parliament all getting together to integrate football development with schools and communities in a Dutch type model.

 

The thing is that nothing in England is guaranteed and you just have to look a Newcastle to see where it can go unfathomably wrong. They have a similar sized support and demographic but have failed even with all the Sky money.

 

There is the question of would you rather be a Gretna fan or a Queen of the South fan?

[Union City Blue 0]

I am suggesting we stop making excuses for our predicament, and start using the positives to run our club properly, represent our nation proudly in European competition, and be in a decent position if the Sky bubble bursts and all EPL clubs are bankrupt.

 

We can be a decent club on the European stage, as we have always been, from within our own domestic league, and we should be encouraging the other clubs to try to get to our level, rather than write them all off and try to leave for what is fashionable now, but may not always be such.

 

And last but by no means least, to put our fans first, and ensure that we dont have regular 1000 mile round trips, some of which during the working week. It is us, the match-going fans, that should be considered more than anything else, as without us, there is not much left.

 

Although I didn't elaborate, this (and your post above, tannochsidebear) was the essence of the OP. In my head and my heart, I find this a difficult issue.

 

It's all about money - nothing else. We had (well, borrowed) lots of money before and where did it get us?

 

Change is inevitable, I understand that. But this needs a lot of thought and nobody's got round to describing what the end game is yet. I don't think anybody even knows.

 

As I said in the OP, the chat is about undefined competitions in unspecified lands playing against unidentified opponents with absolutely no regard for the game in Scotland. Erm, I think I need a lot more information than that.

 

Accepting that our current failures are simply down to not having as much money as clubs in England is laughable. Our club is not all it can be in its current situation, that must be pretty clear.

[Super_Ally 0]

I don't want anything that could dissolve our Scottish identity. Too many try to hide it as it is under a banner of "britishness" but it is fairly obvious for a lot of fans that they don't give two shits about Britain.

 

Use FF as an example. When they get on their high horse over there because someone laughs at an ENgland defeat. But there are plenty who slag Scotland and none who are pro-Wales.

 

They may talk of Britain but they're only interested in England and Ulster. :devil:

[Union City Blue 0]

I don't want anything that could dissolve our Scottish identity. Too many try to hide it as it is under a banner of "britishness" but it is fairly obvious for a lot of fans that they don't give two shits about Britain.

 

Use FF as an example. When they get on their high horse over there because someone laughs at an ENgland defeat. But there are plenty who slag Scotland and none who are pro-Wales.

 

They may talk of Britain but they're only interested in England and Ulster. :devil:

 

Correct. A lot of people seem well confused about their identity!!