SFA considering salary cap

[andy steel 0]

Some really interesting points, albeit most of them having nothing to do with the SFA's idea!

 

I would agree the USA has a far greater sense of community and citizenship than we do; but in parallel to that it also has a far greater problem of underclass and exclusion than we do. In other words, they have more 'good' than we, but they pay for it with more 'bad.'

 

Maineflyer wrote earlier about the fell hand of The State crushing the spirit of the free man, by knowing better than said man. True enough and I would rather see personal freedom on almost every level. The trouble is, in Scotland they do know better...free choice, which we've 'enjoyed' for the last couple of generations, has hardly led to a blooming paradise where everyone can pursue their dreams, has it? In no way are we as bad as some countries but we're on the wrong road in so many areas (health for one) and if it needs someone to slap the slobs around untiil they 'get it', so be it.

 

Even the most fanatical Scots nationalist would have to admit we seem overly blessed with fuds around here.

[andy steel 0]

calling them arrogant because they are the best at almost everything is just jealousy.

 

Sorry, I missed this bit first time around. You're missing the point a bit there, people refer to the political classes of the US as arrogant because they expect and oftentimes insist that everyone else dances to their tune. You might quite like their tune - it might be 'She's My Best Friend' by the Velvet Underground, say - but if someone else constantly tells you where and when to play it, it gets a bit annoying.

 

We were every bit as guilty in our turn, of course. As were the Romans, and so on. But it's not a petted lip because the Star Spangled Banner is played so often at Athletics meets or whatever..

[bmck 117]

I would agree the USA has a far greater sense of community and citizenship than we do; but in parallel to that it also has a far greater problem of underclass and exclusion than we do. In other words, they have more 'good' than we, but they pay for it with more 'bad.'

 

i think that's a necessary precondition of the possibility of greatness. where there's room (and affluence) to excel, someone's always losing. the egalitarian ideal promotes equality largerly by lobbing off the peaks and troughs. i'm not sure what is better, though i tend to think the former. anyway, my point was really just that it seems like common wisdom to think of america as some sort of great oppressor; as history's most powerful-nation-in-the-world-at-a-given-time goes, they're not too bad.

 

Maineflyer wrote earlier about the fell hand of The State crushing the spirit of the free man, by knowing better than said man. True enough and I would rather see personal freedom on almost every level. The trouble is, in Scotland they do know better...free choice, which we've 'enjoyed' for the last couple of generations, has hardly led to a blooming paradise where everyone can pursue their dreams, has it? In no way are we as bad as some countries but we're on the wrong road in so many areas (health for one) and if it needs someone to slap the slobs around untiil they 'get it', so be it.

 

you don't need to convince me. i think it's ironic that, in a democracy, we can think of the state and the spirit of the free man as independent. if our leaders are crap, visionless, and weak, then it's a reflection of the poverty of the soul of the free voters who voted for them. i prefer freedom to oppression, but excellence to freedom. freedom isn't an end; i think we think freedom is an end, when it should always be a means. freedom to do what? freedom to achieve what? who cares that we have more freedoms than iran? what do those freedoms allow us to do? that's what's important. i think that's what you're getting at - we've got tons of freedom here and we use it pettily.

 

Even the most fanatical Scots nationalist would have to admit we seem overly blessed with fuds around here.

 

most scots nationalists are fuds

 

anyway, tangent over, back to work

Edited September 4, 2009 by bmck

[bmck 117]

Sorry, I missed this bit first time around. You're missing the point a bit there, people refer to the political classes of the US as arrogant because they expect and oftentimes insist that everyone else dances to their tune.

 

why shouldn't they, other than that it will annoy the other nations? i guess we could start getting philosophical about natural rights, and such like, but i think in the world of nation states war is basic, because everyone wants their slice of the finite half-time pie. i think it would be great if america could be nice and charitable and russia would, in turn, do something nice and charitable and not take advantage of it. but i don't think that's the case. it's hard to know what's right, but america isn't saying "follow us or we'll slaughter you", they're saying "follow us, or the advantages you get from us will stop". we might not like it, but it's hardly arrogance to play to your strengths.

 

You might quite like their tune - it might be 'She's My Best Friend' by the Velvet Underground, say - but if someone else constantly tells you where and when to play it, it gets a bit annoying.

 

i'm not sure that particular song would get annoying even in those circumstances

 

im not saying america isn't annoying - it clearly is - but they're that kind of annoying the best-and-knows-it is.

[andy steel 0]

Agreed, some economic chastisement is certainly preferable to something nastier. There's the counter to that - which is that the US, in it's more right of centre forms, has indeed said and done 'follow us or we'll slaughter you' - central America springs to mind - but I want to avoid that line so as not to sound like some rabid America-hater.

 

In broader terms, even threats of most favoured nation status or whatever are in my eyes petty and counter productive. Like most political actions they seem to be about appearing to be/do something rather than actually achieving things. If you are trying to persuade someone of something, lording it over them is rarely the best strategy; just look at Peter Mandelson.

 

And finally, that VU song - who sings the lead vocal? I'm sure it must be Doug Yule; he's a good chanter.

[Zappa 0]

Since this thread is already derailed & going a bit OT, I'll just add that there's either a lot of ignorance or forgetfulness regarding the actions of the US government & it's intelligence agencies, organizations & it's countries' corporations over the past century. People in general need to educate themselves about what's previously gone down & currently going on in this world, because you can be sure that our mainstream mass media aren't going to tell you.

 

FWIW, I've been to the US several times & have very mixed feelings about their society. It's like all the possible extremes rolled into one big fatty.

[craig 5,199]

 

FWIW, I've been to the US several times & have very mixed feelings about their society. It's like all the possible extremes rolled into one big fatty.

 

I have been to the US on many occasions and they dont seem that much different to UK folks to me. Some are nice, some are stand-offish, some are arrogant, some are helpful etc.

 

For the most part I have come across a lot of very nice Americans and only a handful have been arseholes.

 

But I see that in the UK whenever I am home too.

[Zappa 0]

Craig, you picked the most irrelevant paragraph in my post to reply to. That's why I started it with 'FWIW' (for what it's worth).

[Zappa 0]

Something that's quite potent, is that the vast majority of Old Firm fans would probably say that they've got no time at all for all this PC bullshit & that in actual fact they'd rather that we were all able to say & sing whatever we want. I'm in that majority. We should all be able to say & sing whatever we want. End of (in theory). Unfortunately, in some ways I think we're approaching a 1984 scenario.

[Norris Cole 0]

Something that's quite potent, is that the vast majority of Old Firm fans would probably say that they've got no time at all for all this PC bullshit & that in actual fact they'd rather that we were all able to say & sing whatever we want. I'm in that majority. We should all be able to say & sing whatever we want.

 

Celtic fans sure have a strange way of showing it.