Zappa 0 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Do you mean the club should open up a dialogue? The statemt says they have informal communications already. What are you suggesting is done or said? Well ideally, yes it would be the club, but we all know that's highly unlikely to happen, so I'm not sure. Ultimately I think it would need to come from the support, but in terms of representation I don't see the RST or RSA going against the wishes of the club on the matter, so it would need to be outwith them all in some shape or form. TBH, an independent body of fans campaigning on such a matter is probably just as likely to open positive dialogue with the SFA as the RST is. I don't know, maybe it's simply too little too late & just a waste of time, but I can't help thinking that if you don't ask, you don't get. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Spliff 0 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Thanks mate. Curious about what position you think such a group should take and what you think they could hope to achieve? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Thanks mate. Curious about what position you think such a group should take and what you think they could hope to achieve? Well, the fundamental position is something that you already know, which is that TBB is not a sectarian or racist football chant in it's official form. The SFA know this fine well, so there's no ground for argument other than the 'extended' or 'alternative' version/s of the chant. That's where our problem lies though because even if the official version of the song was to be miraculously allowed there's absolutely no way that 100% of the support would stick to it & even if they did, we'd still undoubtedly be accused of singing the alternative versions. The bottom line seems to be that because of the campaign against our club by 'you know who', we're in a position where our backs have been against the wall since the outset of the issue & that it's now far too late to do anything about it. Yes, I was asking if there's still anything we might be able to do about it, but on reflection I seriously doubt that there is. Even outright retaliation is now petty & ultimately futile, whereas that's what should have been done in the first place when it was required. There should certainly have been more of a stance on the issue & IMO our club should actually have had the backing of the SFA in a stance that deemed the official version of the song non-sectarian & absolutely acceptable & that measures would be taken to get rid of the alternative versions if necessary. Our club doesn't have the full backing of the SFA though, so that was never going to happen. It may well be that our only remaining option is to play a hand that deals with the singing of Irish Republican Army related songs in football grounds. A solid (IE bulletproof) stack of evidence would have to be gathered of sectarian &/or racist activity, but with the right people in the right places at the right times, that should be a relatively simple stack of evidence to acquire. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 It may well be that our only remaining option is to play a hand that deals with the singing of Irish Republican Army related songs in football grounds. A solid (IE bulletproof) stack of evidence would have to be gathered of sectarian &/or racist activity, but with the right people in the right places at the right times, that should be a relatively simple stack of evidence to acquire. No, I understand completely your frustration but that's not the way forward and you've said as much yourself in previous posts. We don't need more censorship, but less. TBB was football chant ffs, not a political or racist weapon as it's been made out to be by the serially offended professional victims. The case against it was contrived by people who don't give a fukk what words are used, only that it was a stick they could use to beat Rangers with. UEFA would never have sought out TBB without the 'guidance' of those whose only objective was to embarrass Rangers. What we need is a world where people can sing what they want and any change should come from within because WE decide we want it. This age of enforcement for pc reasons is fundamentally uncivilized and undermines social values at the same time it pretends to uphold them. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Cole 0 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 It may well be that our only remaining option is to play a hand that deals with the singing of Irish Republican Army related songs in football grounds. A solid (IE bulletproof) stack of evidence would have to be gathered of sectarian &/or racist activity, but with the right people in the right places at the right times, that should be a relatively simple stack of evidence to acquire. Couldn't agree more. Part of the problem to date has been the one-sided nature of the 'anti-sectarianism' 'debate'. Things might have been different if their IRA songs had been attacked or banned in the manner TBB was. Would they rather ban TBB but not be able to have their weekly IRAoke, or would they leave TBB alone to keep their IRA songbook? Funnily enough I also agree with MF's point above re. censorship, but as you say what cards do we have left? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 No, I understand completely your frustration but that's not the way forward and you've said as much yourself in previous posts. We don't need more censorship, but less. TBB was football chant ffs, not a political or racist weapon as it's been made out to be by the serially offended professional victims. The case against it was contrived by people who don't give a fukk what words are used, only that it was a stick they could use to beat Rangers with. UEFA would never have sought out TBB without the 'guidance' of those whose only objective was to embarrass Rangers. What we need is a world where people can sing what they want and any change should come from within because WE decide we want it. This age of enforcement for pc reasons is fundamentally uncivilized and undermines social values at the same time it pretends to uphold them. Of course, you're absolutely correct. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 We don't need more censorship, but less. TBB was football chant ffs, not a political or racist weapon as it's been made out to be by the serially offended professional victims. Sums it up neatly. I'd love someone in a position of real influence to put that arguement forward. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Funnily enough I also agree with MF's point above re. censorship, but as you say what cards do we have left? You'd think that heavily endorsed petitions would have some weight, but I've yet to see one that's carefully enough worded that it doesn't come across as being somewhat petty & even sectarian in it's own right. How any intelligent person can come up with a petition statement for this issue that comes across as petty & sectarian in itself is just totally beyond me, but there you go... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Cole 0 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Loud and proud at Fir Park today, top effort Bears 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Spliff 0 Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Loud and proud at Fir Park today, top effort Bears Yeah great. Good job Rangers haven't been warned of fines & sanctions if our supporters return to singing the Billy Boys eh? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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