Frankie 8,562 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 I see the thread has moved on a lot since I last looked in, but I still think it all comes down to this (above). STS is progressing well. What needs to happen next (and preferably soon before all momentum, and the interest and belief of fans not able to attend meetings, is lost) is for the RSA to decide what to take forward to the club and for the fans to receive something public and tangible from the club. True but I'm not overly worried about the speed of this. In fact, I'd actually prefer we took our time on this to fully investigate issues ourselves so we can go to the club with extremely strong arguments for our point of view. If we do that alongside improving the Assembly and unifying supporters, then we become much more credible across the board. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I interpret the ban as UEFA originally wanting to wash their hands of something that is incredibly complex, difficult to understand for an outsider, fraught with semantic conundrums and therefore almost impossible to sort out. So they originally did nothing. Then put under pressure by sources unknown, and probably not wanting to look weak and condoning sectarianism thereby also weakening their stance on racism, they decide to punish Rangers as an example. However, they still don't really understand the situation and are not sure what to do - they are bombarded with all the Rangers songs and are told by those with an agenda why they are sectarian. They don't really see any of them as black and white - BUT the Billy Boys "sounds" pretty offensive and it was one of the songs we were caught singing. So they latch onto that one and ban it as it seems the worst and looks like they are doing something. It's really tokenism and trying to look strong while not getting into the can of worms that lies waiting for them. The Rangers board keen to show they are doing something, go along with it knowing banning one song is far easier to enforce than going through our repertoire one by one. That's a plausible scenario to me. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,562 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 I think that is exactly what happened calscot... Unfortunately, unlike Arsenal with regard to Eduardo for example, we didn't make the point of inconsistency and imbalance after the fact which we should have done. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Cole 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Yes that certainly sounds plausible calscot. That being the case you can't really place the blame primarily on UEFA. Iââ?¬â?¢m willing to believe they hadnââ?¬â?¢t the first idea of what TBB was all about other than to take the word of Spiers and his merry band of bheasts and their endless youtube clips and mock-outrage e-mails. Frankly Rangers fans can only dream of conducting a campaign like it. Other than the Mope lobby, the second culprits in TBBââ?¬â?¢s ââ?¬â?? hopefully temporary ââ?¬â?? ban are ourselves, the Rangers support. Either UEFA have banned the mere tune of TBB or we as a support have decided they have. If the former is the case, then Iââ?¬â?¢d suggest thereââ?¬â?¢s an awful lot of football clubs out there, not least in Scotland, committing a criminal offence on a weekly basis. This nonsense about TBB and the term "feni@n" being sectarian is a lie that could only be peddled in 21st century Scotland, though that is a debate which becomes irrelevant if we replace it with ââ?¬Å?Celtic bloodââ?¬Â a la ââ?¬Å?Ayr bloodââ?¬Â, ââ?¬Å?Arab bloodââ?¬Â etc. However encouraging it was to see TBB make a return among sections of the support last season, it sickens me the extent to which we have rolled over on the flimsiest of evidence that we were committing some sort of crime. Since the ââ?¬Å?banââ?¬Â, TBB has become more than a song for me. It is a symbol of the sustained, hate-filled and utterly unanswered attack our club and support have endured for nigh on a decade now. Iââ?¬â?¢ve said before that an analysis of the facts suggests the Rangers haters wouldn't have a leg to stand on if this was put through the courts, however I wouldn't like to be the poor sod trying to defend it in a Scottish court in 2009. If Mr Johnston wants a relationship with the fans and wants unity to return to the club, he has his issue right here. There are a lot of intelligent Rangers fans out there from various sites, some who have done painstaking legal research, who deserve an audience of mutual respect with the club, and to feel as though the club is on their side. TBB should be raised at every such meeting between club and fans IMO, no matter the hostility of imposters like Kenny Scott. The issue's neglect has increased its importance ten-fold. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Frankly Rangers fans can only dream of conducting a campaign like it. it's more of a nightmare. it's pathetic beyond belief. i'd kill myself, or, at least, stop being a rangers fan if we started becoming so obssessed with celtic as to start this sort of nonsense. i find it hard to read an article about celtic, or anything celtic related, even if it's a wind-up one on a rangers site. they exist only as something to beat at football. if i could work up mock outrage as well as they could, i wouldn't waste it on their petty shennagins. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Cole 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 it's more of a nightmare. it's pathetic beyond belief. i'd kill myself, or, at least, stop being a rangers fan if we started becoming so obssessed with celtic as to start this sort of nonsense. i find it hard to read an article about celtic, or anything celtic related, even if it's a wind-up one on a rangers site. they exist only as something to beat at football. if i could work up mock outrage as well as they could, i wouldn't waste it on their petty shennagins. Of course, that statement is not to say I'd want to indulge in any of their mock-outragery. The fact is though, that while they sing of killing British soldiers every week without "fear or favour" to quote Dr Reid, we have to watch what we say or sing precisely because of them. That surely, is a statement of fact. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Of course, that statement is not to say I'd want to indulge in any of their mock-outragery. The fact is though, that while they sing of killing British soldiers every week without "fear or favour" to quote Dr Reid, we have to watch what we say or sing precisely because of them. That surely, is a statement of fact. i take your point, but remember it's not just because of them. if we'd had someone take a dr-reid-style strong stance, either in the media or at ibrox, we could've shrugged it off. i'm quite happy for celtic fans to have the right to sing their vile shit, even if it disgusts me. the last thing i want is more bourgeois-moralistic regulation of football. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Spliff 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 The fact is, there is a UEFA ban. And it's very specific - it's the Billy Boys in any form. It sounds like the club did a good job in presenting the context to the first disciplinary hearing. But we lost it when we failed to challenge the result of the appeal on the same grounds (and very specifically that "f3nian" does not mean "Roman Catholic"). Rangers simply had no stomach for it beyond the first hearing. It's sickening, but it's too late now. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Cole 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 i take your point, but remember it's not just because of them. if we'd had someone take a dr-reid-style strong stance, either in the media or at ibrox, we could've shrugged it off. That's what I'm trying to get across, and something which was never going to happen under our previous custodian, who was if anything complicit in the ban. i'm quite happy for celtic fans to have the right to sing their vile shit, even if it disgusts me. the last thing i want is more bourgeois-moralistic regulation of football. In an ideal world everyone could sing what they like. Perhaps if the bheasts had their immunity to sanction or criticism removed they would come round to this way of thinking. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,562 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 The fact is, there is a UEFA ban. And it's very specific - it's the Billy Boys in any form. It sounds like the club did a good job in presenting the context to the first disciplinary hearing. But we lost it when we failed to challenge the result of the appeal on the same grounds (and very specifically that "f3nian" does not mean "Roman Catholic"). Rangers simply had no stomach for it beyond the first hearing. It's sickening, but it's too late now. We could not challenge the appeal result via UEFA. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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