Zappa 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Craig, without dissecting your points & getting too long winded, I'll just say that in my experience most people are willing to talk about how much money they earn if they're asked about it in the right circumstances or situation. I'm not saying that they should have to divulge that information, but they will do in most cases. I think most football fans would like to know exactly who gets paid what at their club, especially when their club is in financial trouble & not able to play with & strengthen the squad in the transfer market. If it's ok for us to know how much a player cost to buy from another club, I fail to see any real harm in us knowing what his wages are. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 PS - great debate. Debating with you is like being bashed into submission with a 50 pound hammer. :devil: 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Craig, without dissecting your points & getting too long winded, I'll just say that in my experience most people are willing to talk about how much money they earn if they're asked about it in the right circumstances or situation. I'm not saying that they should have to divulge that information, but they will do in most cases. I think most football fans would like to know exactly who gets paid what at their club, especially when their club is in financial trouble & not able to play with & strengthen the squad in the transfer market. If it's ok for us to know how much a player cost to buy from another club, I fail to see any real harm in us knowing what his wages are. Maybe they WILL discuss it but they have no right to it. That is my point. The point you have been making consistently is that the club should divulge what the players get paid. My point has been consistently that the fans have no right to such information. Dont get me wrong, I personally would like to know what the club pays its players but I have absolutely no right to that information. And, sorry, but the financial plight of the club should bear absolutely no relevance on whether they should see that information or not. But there you go too Shroomz, you use knowing transfer fees as a way to justify knowing salaries. For one, they are completely different. You are looking at corporate entities dealing with each other in transfer fees whilst salaries are contracts between the corporate entity and an individual and that individual is justly entitled to keep their salary information private. Secondly the fans also dont have a right to know what the transfer fees are, hence why more and more transfers are for "undisclosed fees". I dont know how we get round this debate but an individuals salary details are their own and no-one has a right to know them aside from that person themselves and the employer with whom they have the contract (as well as HMRC for payroll tax purposes). In my experience it has actually been a condition of the employment contract that I do NOT discuss it with other employees. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Debating with you is like being bashed into submission with a 50 pound hammer. :devil: You submitting yet ? I do enjoy good debate and I lose as many as I win (probably more so....). As long as it is respectful (which this obviously is) then have at it 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 You submitting yet ? Definitely mate because I think you're absolutely correct on this. The club has no obligation at all to divulge that sort of information & in actual fact would be pretty foolish to do so. Like yourself though, I'd love to know the details. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) It seems to me that jealousy is the biggest if not single argument. But it has been mentioned that jealousy exists whether the details are divulged or not and if fact could easily be worse if players' unknown wages are exaggerated. The paranoid might even be jealous of someone who is actually earning less than them. I find that argument a bit banal, not very compelling and only really comes into play if there is a very uneven and almost random wage structure. Also I can only see the jealousy coming much into play if someone isn't worth their wage although I suppose many players think they are worth more than they are and that others are worth less. I think we need a better, more tangible argument than mere jealousy. If Broadfoot is jealous of Mendes' salary then basically he needs to get over himself - or become a better player than Pedro. As for supporters merely being customers, that's just not true at all. I shop in Tesco, AND Asda as well as others. I don't support Rangers AND Celtic. People don't buy season tickets to a supermarket and they are not called "Clubs". If you applied supermarket thinking to football you'd be getting a lot of refund AND replace after a lot of games. Season ticket holders especially are club members as well as investors and like those with mortgages at Building Societies, deserve a lot more say. Many are also share holders too. The argument that supports don't have the right to know the player's salaries may stem from business tradition, but it is still a very weak argument to me - unless there is something I'm missing. Edited September 4, 2009 by calscot 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 It seems to me that jealousy is the biggest if not single argument. Surely the biggest arguement is that the players deserve the same privacy the rest of us are afforded? I would like to know, but as Craig has stated we have no right to know. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 It would be pretty easy for anyone to find out my salary so I'm not sure what privacy you're referring to. And I don't guard my salary info as some kind of top secret either. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 PS I didn't say we have the right to know, I just said that the arguments against it are not exactly strong. We now have jealousy and privacy, the first is very weak and second doesn't really have much reasoning behind it beyond the generic. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 It would be pretty easy for anyone to find out my salary so I'm not sure what privacy you're referring to. And I don't guard my salary info as some kind of top secret either. How is that then? I didn't think it was freely available information? If it's that easy why is it not just as easy to find out football players wages and what is this arguement for? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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