Zappa 0 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 No automatic qualification spot next year as the 13th ranked country. If the winners of the tournament have already qualified, the winners of the SPL will get an automatic spot. And still fuck Celtic. Fair enough, but I stand by what I've said here. If Scottish teams don't have a great season in Europe this year, it'll be detrimental to Scottish football. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Sorry S_A, but I think you're completely wrong here. We're in a situation where if Scottish clubs don't do well for the coefficient this coming season, there's every chance that we'll be losing our automatic CL qualification for next year because we're currently teetering right on the edge in the points & ranking system. It could potentially be a snowball effect because if we lose that auto CL spot, we'll be looking at a situation where the SPL champions have to compete in 2 CL qualifying rounds & the SPL runners up won't see any CL football at all. Instead, the SPL runners up would go into the Europa league & depending on the progress of Scottish clubs in Europe in those circumstances, we could eventually see our team & national rankings dropping way below where it should be. If you want to go down the road where Scotland only have one CL spot again, then fair enough, but we're mighty close to that happening & the only way to avoid it happening is for both of the Old Firm teams to have good runs in Europe. It's actually so bad that that might not be enough & that we actually need to hope for our other Scottish teams in Europe to rack up some coefficient points. My take on it is this:- Since getting our 2nd CL spot Scottish football in Europe has been on the up again with both sides of the OF reaching the CL last 16 & Rangers reaching the UEFA Cup final. Loosing our 2nd CL spot signals that Scottish football is not on the up anymore, it's going in the wrong direction & that can only be bad for the game in our country. Maybe it puts me in some sort of outcast minority amongst our support as do some of my other views, but personally I'm not willing to endorse sacrificing the standard of Scottish football & our European standing so that I can say 'lets all laugh at the mopes' or 'haha, the scum are out of Europe' or 'LOL, where's your European football now, ya dirty bassas'. Maybe you'll see my point, maybe you won't. It's not just so I can't laugh at their expense. Timmy getting into CL reduces our financial bonus. Increases theirs. Financially they are stronger than us atm. If they have good European seasons and we dont they will continue to strengthen we will continue to weaken. Vicious cycle. People can say that is short-sighted or a parochial view. However, in reality our only competition in the league is them. In Europe no one has a divine right to do well. It is a bonus. That is the truth of the matter. And just because Timmy fail does no guarantee the coefficient will be decimated. I'm not going to support the scum in Europe which will certainly benefit them, but the benefits to us our less obviously attained. Fuck them. :spl: 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Fair enough, but I stand by what I've said here. If Scottish teams don't have a great season in Europe this year, it'll be detrimental to Scottish football. Celtic are Oirish. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Celtic are Oirish. Aye, very good, but it's not Ireland's coefficient that they affect is it??? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 You can spin it whatever way you like S_A, but I'll repeat that I won't be supporting them in Europe. I won't be cheering them on or even hoping they win, but there's plenty scenarios that would be great for Scottish football where they actually do well, just so long as we do better. I don't need to support them to say that it would be great for Scottish football if we were to both reach the CL last 16, but they got papped out & we went on to the quarter finals or semis. Like I said earlier in the thread, the best thing for us & Scottish football combined, would actually be if they make it through this round then get knocked out in their next qualifier & go on to have a run in the Europa to rack up some coefficient points. Just as long as they didn't make it as far as the final, I'd be cool with that. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 It's not that you don't have a good point. But look at these scenarios: 1) Celtic make the CL this year. Do well, last 16 even. Earn big bucks and their mere presence reduces our money. Based on their profits from the CL they win the league and gain automatic qualification or an easy CL qualifier for 2010/11 (depending on who wins it this year). We, as runners up, go into the qualifiers. Check out Bert kassies website. As qualifiers, but not national champions, we go into the non champions draw and get an Arsenal or a Lyon and get papped out. Falkirk, 'Well, Hearts and Aberdeen all got papped out early doors. Celtic get CL mega bucks, reduce our money, improve their co-efficient and we struggle for CL and SPL campaigns in years to come. Vicious cycle. 2) We alone qualify for the CL. We get 3rd and have a round or 2 in the Europa cup, or finish 4th but alone take the tv money for the CL. Celtic, Falkirk, Aberdeen, 'Well and Hearts all get papped out early doors. The Scottish co-efficient is weakened. Celtic do not have money to strengthen. We have our finances in improved. We win the league. The SPL doesn't gain automatice CL qualification. But we go into the Champions side of the draw and have to beat the Nag's head XI of Wales to qualify. Both scenarios are equally as possible. Both are admittedly fantasy. However I am just trying to illustrate the point that Celtic doing well in Europe is by no means good news for us and can certainly be bad news. Do Man City fans support Man U in Europe? Do Atletico fan support Madird in Europe? Do Feyenoord fans support Ajax in Europe? Ok these clubs might be able to afford to have that mentality due to the relative strength of their league but taking into consideration the paragraph above, i'll take my chances. I will be pulling for a win (seeing as you are still getting hung up on the semantics ) for Hearts, Falkirk, Motherwell and yes even Aberdeen. But Celtic can go and get fucked. It is far too simplistic to say them doing well in Europe is good for us and them doing bad is bad for us. In fact, the exact opposite could be true. Should they do well, get the financial benefits and hence win the SPL, it could be a long time before we have any kind of European run. The SPL is our bread and butter and I think we need to remember that. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyMac Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 I will be cheering on Moscow Dynamo regardless of any co efficent any team they play I will always be cheering on the other team 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Things is, although it may hurt Scotland's co-effficient the reality is still that the MAIN aim has to be to win the league. Win the league and we have qualifiers to get to the CL proper. Win the league and if that 2nd spot has gone then we get the FULL share of Scotland's CL money, whatever it may be given we may not make the group stages. Us wishing Celtic to do well in Euro competition is counter-intuitive. What if the do beat Dinamo ? Do we hope the beat Arsenal, Lyon etc to make the group stages ? Of course not. Should we hope that they make the Europa tournament ? IMO again the answer is NO. If they make it there is extra revenue for them. They are financially more sound than us at present so any opportunity for us to grab ALL the Euro money and them be left with NOTHING should be grabbed with both hands. Here is a slightly different perspective on it...... what if : 1. Celtic dont make the CL but make the Europa 2. Those Europa co-efficient points mean that Scotland retains its 2nd CL place 3. Rangers win the league. What happens with the above - has that helped Rangers ? NOPE. Who has it helped ? Celtic. Why ? because without those Europa co-efficient points Celtic would lose out on the CL completely next year but with them they get their name in the hat to try and get lucky by making the CL. If they don't get into the Europa and we win the league then only WE will go to the CL next season - which effectively means a 2nd season of us taking ALL the CL money. That scenario, coupled with Celtic's spending already this pre-season, could be enough to see us on a much more even-keel financially with Celtic. Yes, it could play out horribly for us in that we don't win the league and therefore we are the team to miss out on the CL. But that is the chance you take. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Craig, that's the point I have tried and failed to make. Celtic doing well and improving the co-efficient is not necessarily good news for us. It is good news for them. Us doing well and them not is definitely good news for us. (For example the approx 24 co-efficient points we got for Manchester is more than Rangers and Celtic tend to accrue between the two. I.e. we don't both normally get 12 each.) Therefore i'll play the odds and hope they get pumped. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 to be honest, i will come down with s_as analysis if i need to give a good reason, but the truth is that i want celtic to lose in every game they play in. i love my parochial outlook. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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