Barry: The end

[craig 5,199]

Och Yes our wee Barry's a right wee angel. He is a twat and the sooner he leaves the club the better in my opinion.

 

You know him well enough to call him a twat Pete ? I dont believe we should be making personal insults. Please refrain.

 

I want him to leave the club too but not because of his discipline (or lack thereof) but due to the lack of what he brings to the team.

 

No-one has said that he is a wee angel. Have they ?

[craig 5,199]

Ferguson is/was the bloody national team captain. If anyone is to blame, it's him. Burley is not his dad, he should be wise enough and responsible enough to be doing the 'right' thing in that situation.

 

Again, a poor example to be setting.

 

So he is to blame JUST because he was national team captain ? Come on, that is a very lame reason to be blaming anyone. I dont think for a minute he is blameless but to give him blame just because he was captain makes no sense to me.

 

Do you know exactly what has happened here ? If you do then let us know so we can all make a reasoned judgement. Because as far as I see it we are still working on supposition.

 

It also looks like there is more to it, or at least more players involved.

 

I am not trying to defend Ferguson but it ires me that we can cast blame without being in possession of the full facts.

[pete 2,499]

The best conmen criminals in the world are great at gaining trust and stabbing in the back. Personally i don't think the players backed Bertie Vogts that much and i would say he didn't get much help from our players led by Barry. I guess Barry was very young under Brown and Hughs hardly got to know him.

[craig 5,199]

The best conmen criminals in the world are great at gaining trust and stabbing in the back. Personally i don't think the players backed Bertie Vogts that much and i would say he didn't get much help from our players led by Barry. I guess Barry was very young under Brown and Hughs hardly got to know him.

 

But you said he was the common denominator and then named the managers that were convenient to you. I listed all managers and showed that at least 7 of them had not lost the dressing room with Ferguson there. If you want to asses the disruptive influence of someone you surely need to look at all the managers they have worked under. You also suggested I used circumstantial evidence, which is fine. But at least I have backed up that circumstantial evidence with what looks to be plausible. Your rebuttal is simply that he is the "common denominator" - but that is only when you look at the managers you want to. What about the others where the dressing room WASNT lost ? Should we conveniently forget them ?

 

Hughes got to know him well enough to install him as Captain.

 

It wasnt the players fault with Vogts. Players got capped under Vogts that wouldn't get a game in a Sunday pub team. Even the best players in the world couldn't turn that scenario around.

 

I am not saying he is blameless, far from it. But to use only the information that suits you is unfair to the player.

[Super_Ally 0]

Was he not also Souness' captain at Blackburn?

 

I'm not defending him here btw. It fully looks like he was in the wrong.

 

But to use this example to re-write history is BS in my opinion.

[pete 2,499]

But you said he was the common denominator and then named the managers that were convenient to you. I listed all managers and showed that at least 7 of them had not lost the dressing room with Ferguson there. If you want to asses the disruptive influence of someone you surely need to look at all the managers they have worked under. You also suggested I used circumstantial evidence, which is fine. But at least I have backed up that circumstantial evidence with what looks to be plausible. Your rebuttal is simply that he is the "common denominator" - but that is only when you look at the managers you want to. What about the others where the dressing room WASNT lost ? Should we conveniently forget them ?

 

Hughes got to know him well enough to install him as Captain.

 

It wasnt the players fault with Vogts. Players got capped under Vogts that wouldn't get a game in a Sunday pub team. Even the best players in the world couldn't turn that scenario around.

 

I am not saying he is blameless, far from it. But to use only the information that suits you is unfair to the player.

 

You don't have to be disruptive under every manager Craig that is Rubbish in my opinion. I have had managers and boss's i would work my guts out for and others i would not piss on them if they were on fire. I was up for promotion under a boss three years ago but unfortunately he was sidetracked by the new young managers we now have. I just couldn't get on with a new young prick manager and became totally rebellious. We had courses in working in a self running team and i nearly had the teacher having a nervous breakdown. It got so bad he refused to take my team any more and i was pulled up to answer to the higher bosses. Thankfully we now have a new manager again that i can get on great with but there are plenty of managers in our work i know i cannot work with. Funnily enough it is the biggest back-stabbers that always seem to get promotion.

[ian1964 10,669]

The amount of abuse ALL Rangers players receive from the '' Tartan Army '',and Scotland fans in general, it would not bother me one little bit if Rangers players never played for Scotland again, Rangers and Rangers players are simply hated by all other fans

[alexscottislegend 2,236]

Watched the game on Justin for free

 

Fletcher 4/10 looks good at Manure passing to world class players

 

Hutton 10/10 what more can one say

 

Ross McCorm... 9/10 Le French fooker was wrong about this guy,well done my son,come back to the brox anytime

 

PS Alex Scott was not a legend

 

Maybe a leg end

He was a legend to me mate - the first no. 7 I ever saw. You were still in your romper suit at the time.:devil:

[calscot 0]

 

No-one has said that he is a wee angel. Have they ?

 

I think that's the problem these days, you argue against some extreme allegations and suddenly people think you're saying the diametric opposite extreme.

 

What I want to know, is what is Fergie's crime? What actual damage has he caused?

 

I think most 30 year olds can recover from a bit of a sesh within 80 hours to play a game of football. Most will be totally fine in less than 40 hours.

 

Maybe he shouldn't have been drinking so much - although how much he actually drank is not clear to me, but it seems a slapped wrist offence at most to me.

 

If players are playing two games a week and can't have a drink three and a half days before a game, just when can they have a drink?

 

I know they get paid a lot but to say they can't drink at all is a bit extreme to me, unless you can prove that their performance will be noticeably affected - and in any case, players are usually paid for their ability, so if drinking is affecting that, then it will be reflected in their career and pay packet.

 

There was talk by some foreign players under PLG about the drinking and diet habits of the Scots players - however, the ones doing the talking were actually the worst performing players, and if taken as evidence could point to a possibility that eating well and not drinking could make you a WORSE player... And you only have to look at the 9IAR team for more evidence.

[calscot 0]

The best conmen criminals in the world are great at gaining trust and stabbing in the back. Personally i don't think the players backed Bertie Vogts that much and i would say he didn't get much help from our players led by Barry. I guess Barry was very young under Brown and Hughs hardly got to know him.

 

I think Bertie Vogts is a bad example, he picked enough players to find a few to back him... The guy isn't even respected in Germany.