How long do we wait?

[CammyF 8,385]

Yip, I'm a surrender monkey - spending money I don't have following Rangers to the ends of the earth, upholding the traditions set by the likes of Struth, Waddell and Wallace.

 

I have followed Rangers week in, week out for over 25 years witnessing them play at places like Dumbarton, Clydebank, East Fife, Forfar, Ayr, Inverness et al, within crowds of ~3,000 and at Ibrox when there were less than 10,000 there. I have witnessed dark periods in our history and came out of those whilst follow following. I went along in those days 'hoping' Rangers would win the league, but knowing that they wouldn't. That is the same feeling I have at the moment.

 

There is loyalty and BLIND loyalty, I can't see Rangers winning the league this season (or for the foreseeable future) due to many reasons, all well documented above. If that makes me a surrender monkey and gutless, then guilty as charged.

 

Cammy F

[ian1964 10,761]

While you may have some valid points, the "surrender monkeys" is highly ironic and perhaps you and many others need a good look in the mirror. You've totally surrendered the league and all hope of success in the future while I heard the total opposite of that from our manager or players.

 

Whatever his faults, I have absolutely no doubt WS believes we can win the league and will try his best to do so. There are far too many gutless, so called fans around, that are gleefully predicting that we've already lost.

 

In fact, I think many of our fans are failing far worse than Walter these days. The team were narrowly beaten in extra time at the weakend, but from what I saw and heard on the telly, our fans were well and truly trounced for support, singing and noise by those on the East side of the stadium.

 

Quiet, still, grim and with arms folded looks like the way these days.

 

Cal, if some fans don't share the same confidence you have and feel the need to vent their frustration and disapointment in the teams performance then that is their parogative.But the point you make about how the Rangers fans are gutless and were out sung by the MOPES is just a dig at your own fans,and wrong IMO.Rangers fans turned out in numbers at the cup final and will turn out at every game in the hope of a good result, I personally wouldn't have a go at the fans especially as I wasn't at the game, however I will be at Ibrox on Saturday as normal and give my team the support I always do, but again I will be going there HOPING for a good result. I don't think the league is over, but I won't be running to the bookies with my cash to have a bet on that, are you?

Edited March 18, 2009 by ian1964

[calscot 0]

I'm not denying there are problems at the club in any way, but I'd really defy a neutral to confidently bet his house on which end of Glasgow the SPL trophy will be heading at the end of the season. So if a neutral can't, how can a so-called, "supporter" state his team will lose as a 100% fact?

 

If we were miles behind like we've been at times under Grieg, Wallace, Souness, Advocaat, Eck and PLG, then I'd understand. But the sheer hypocrisy of slagging a manager off for being a surrender monkey and then saying we should forget about the league - while we're 3 points behind with a home game against our rivals, to me shows more culpability and unworthiness than any managerial incompetence.

 

It's loser talk and if you want to hark back to Rangers "traditions", it makes a mockery of them.

 

There were many who told us to give up the last time we won the title, what idiots they turned to be, eh?

 

You just cannot accuse the management and players for being gutless while giving up on a close title race yourself.

 

I'm not defending WS per se, it's the shear hypocrisy that I can't stand.

 

As a "supporter" you can be "cautious", or even "realistic" but giving up wholesale in a competitive position is more gutless than I've seen any Rangers manager be.

 

You can't win a damn thing with that attitude.

[Frankie 8,663]

I'd argue we won't win a damn thing because our players and manager are too cautious...

 

That's are point so it's obvious that eventually we'll suffer from the same traits. You can't have one without the other. Criticism is natural when the team are playing bad continually.

 

I'd see the point if we only had 20,000 at matches but our fans are buying season tickets and attending away matches in record-breaking numbers. Our loyalty and belief can't be questioned in situ - even if on forums etc we're struggling to be confident.

 

And what happens then. The manager et al shirk responsibility again by moaning about that criticism.

 

This is all one huge vicious circle and we need leadership to get out of it. That can only come from the club even if some fans are trying to apply positive criticism via projects like ours.

 

[CammyF 8,385]

I believe that those who have given up on the SPL title, myself included have done so on the evidence of performance on the pitch. Losing to the team bottom of the SPL on two occassions. Not having a settled team nor formation and we appear to deviod of anything resembling tactics.

 

Our last SPL victory was different as we had players that we could believe in; Novo, Prso, Ferguson, Shota, Martvin Andrews et al all rose to the challange and we were impressive in the run in that season. As for the fans, witness the away games at Aberdeen (3-1 victory) and Dundee (2-0 victory, goals in the last minutes of the game), where the fans roared the team to victory.

 

Our manager is a surrender monkey and he has proven this over the course of the season. Changing his tactics and formation away to Aberdeen as a direct result of Aberdeen scoring 4 goals against Celtc the previous week from set-pieces. He has then changed his tactics twice against Celtc in games where they have been there for the taking. His decision to play negatively in a domestic cup final was the last straw for many fans.

 

Our Custodian however is the biggest surrender monkey, sitting in his ivory tower allowing everyone and their dog to have a go at us whilst supporters of other clubs get away with supporting terrorist murders and the likes.

 

I'll be there on Saturday as I always am, supporting my team, singing until I lose my voice (as I do every week) supporting the establishment that means the world to me - surrender monkey and gutless?

 

Cammy F

[ian1964 10,761]

The fact is,even if we do win the league I don't think the criticism of the teams performances will go away, yes it will be less of an issue and will just be papering over the cracks, the doom and gloom that surrounds this club are not initiated from the fans, the fans are worried about the future of the club, quite rightly so

[Norris Cole 0]

Our Custodian however is the biggest surrender monkey, sitting in his ivory tower allowing everyone and their dog to have a go at us whilst supporters of other clubs get away with supporting terrorist murders and the likes.

 

Hear, hear. Very well said.

[CammyF 8,385]

The fact is,even if we do win the league I don't think the criticism of the teams performances will go away, yes it will be less of an issue and will just be papering over the cracks, the doom and gloom that surrounds this club are not initiated from the fans, the fans are worried about the future of the club, quite rightly so

 

Exactly - in this forum's previous guise, I said the same after BOTH our last minute SPL title victories. I urged the fans and the club not to get too taken away with those victories. Even then, the signs were there that these were merely papering over the cracks. I take no glee looking back and saying 'I was right'.

 

The same will happen this season if we win the SPL. I hope to all the gods, not juist mine, that we do win the SPL title, but that is all I have is hope. I have no conviction in us winning the league. We have thrown away too many opportunities and this will come back in haunt us IMO. He have handed the momentum to Celtc and it'll be hard to get that back.

 

The only way I can see us winning the league is another last day turn-around as I don't believe that our players / management team have the bottle to establish and then build on a lead.

 

Cammy F

[johnnyk 158]

I'm not denying there are problems at the club in any way, but I'd really defy a neutral to confidently bet his house on which end of Glasgow the SPL trophy will be heading at the end of the season. So if a neutral can't, how can a so-called, "supporter" state his team will lose as a 100% fact?

 

If we were miles behind like we've been at times under Grieg, Wallace, Souness, Advocaat, Eck and PLG, then I'd understand. But the sheer hypocrisy of slagging a manager off for being a surrender monkey and then saying we should forget about the league - while we're 3 points behind with a home game against our rivals, to me shows more culpability and unworthiness than any managerial incompetence.

 

It's loser talk and if you want to hark back to Rangers "traditions", it makes a mockery of them.

 

There were many who told us to give up the last time we won the title, what idiots they turned to be, eh?

 

You just cannot accuse the management and players for being gutless while giving up on a close title race yourself.

 

I'm not defending WS per se, it's the shear hypocrisy that I can't stand.

 

As a "supporter" you can be "cautious", or even "realistic" but giving up wholesale in a competitive position is more gutless than I've seen any Rangers manager be.

 

You can't win a damn thing with that attitude.

 

We'll soon find out if the manager and players have the right attitude to win the league. They didn't in the cup final against our biggest rivals, they didn't in the last 2 league games against them either and didn't in quite a few other SPL games recently.

 

If we saw more commitment from the club, manager and players I'm sure more if not all fans would have the belief you are talking about and want......is that too much to ask seeing as we're paying to watch them play while they receive handsome pay checks?

 

You can't believe in a product no matter how much you love it if you don't think it's good enough can you

[calscot 0]

Cal, if some fans don't share the same confidence you have and feel the need to vent their frustration and disapointment in the teams performance then that is their parogative.

 

Who said anything about confidence? I think it's pretty 50/50, perhaps a bit less, but that's enough to keep supporting the club instead of "giving up" as so many are advising us to do. If I had my money in the pot and had a 30% chance of winning, I'd see who had the best cards rather than just folding.

 

There is no prerogative for talking as if you know the future as fact and preaching to others they should accept this made up fact, no matter how disappointed you are.

 

But the point you make about how the Rangers fans are gutless and were out sung by the MOPES is just a dig at your own fans,and wrong IMO.

 

So it's ok to unfairly slag your manager and players off, but not to fairly slag off your own fans? I may not have been there and I'm not the loudest singer but I was very disappointed with our fans which from my armchair, looked silent and grumpy compared to the singing and dancing Celtic fans - and this was from about the 30 minute, I'm not talking about after they scored.

 

Rangers fans turned out in numbers at the cup final and will turn out at every game in the hope of a good result, I personally wouldn't have a go at the fans especially as I wasn't at the game, however I will be at Ibrox on Saturday as normal and give my team the support I always do, but again I will be going there HOPING for a good result.

 

Turning up is fine, not singing is fine, but I don't know how you can do so and then slag anyone off for not having passion, enthusiasm, tenacity or guts...

 

I don't think the league is over, but I won't be running to the bookies with my cash to have a bet on that, are you?

 

Well I don't normally bet, but some here think it's a sure thing we'll lose so perhaps they should be putting as much money as they can on Celtic. It's easy money, eh? It's not as if the bookies won't take their bets.