DMAA

1 hour ago, Gaffer said:

Fantastic from the gaffer .... when asked about the ticket allocation for our fans he said "you've got to respect that this is a hibs game at their stadium and they've got loads of fans that want to come and watch Rangers".  ? 

Brilliant way of dealing with it 

We're always going to be over-criticised by the media, but what the table proves just now is that Rangers and Celtic are both performing significantly worse than the norms of recent history.

If it says anything about our transfer record it's not particularly flattering and we can't escape that, even if it is being overblown.

33 minutes ago, ian1964 said:

Thing is though, his contract is up next year so a decision will have to be made soon. It is a tough one to call, can he fit into our style? he certainly knows how to put the ball in the net! when you look at the likes of Sadiq then you would have to think he will be given a chance to see if he can play for Rangers!

The point is that Livingston is the perfect place to prove himself because he’s getting first team football in our league. He has no chance of starting ahead of Morelos or Lafferty and he won’t earn a new contract in our reserves. 

7 minutes ago, buster. said:

It's up to the player in what is left of the season to show he can consistently get a game and score goals in the top flight.

 

If he can do that then he at least gives SG&Co something to think about.

 

 

Agreed, Hardie is in the perfect place right now and there’s no chance he’ll be recalled. 

Anyone else getting a blank screen when trying to watch Hamilton full game on rangers tv?

Very impressed with that video of Sol tbh. He clearly has some abilities than Morelos doesn't. Also the fact he's out of contract in the summer makes him much more attractive but also much less likely we'd fork out for him now, he still wouldn't be cheap.

On the other hand we're playing 1 up front and if that isn't changing then we should focus our resources on a player who goes straight into the starting line-up.

A lot of common sense there @Gaffer that I think we all agree with. I think @Rousseau and I don't disagree with how we should be playing and what we should be doing as much as whether 4-4-2 can play a part in achieving it. The inside runs is one I've mentioned in connection with 4-4-2 before in that the striker on each side acts as a forward one-two partner for each winger, something that Arfield is normally tasked with because Morelos is often too far away, and sideways one-twos often don't come off.

We don't see nearly enough of the winger getting the ball, playing a sharp pass in to the striker's feet and following his pass. The striker should then lay it back and spin off his man, leaving the winger in a very threatening position and the centre in two minds of whether whether to attempt a tackle or stick to his man. Works best with wingers playing on the wrong wing of course because they are running in on their stronger foot.

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

I think you're seeing how we're playing and trying to fit a system to suit; which is valid. But, I think it's a poor way of playing. I'm seeing that way of playing as a pale imitation of how it should be; we should be doing it much, much better -- I don't want to see us take advantage of a poor way of playing. 

If you mean I'm trying to find a system to suit the way we play when we play poorly then no. I think a 4-4-2 suits the style we've had all season quite well and the players we have and would have helped in games like Livingston, Dundee, Kilmarnock, Hamilton.

27 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Just because we don't have Messi is not a reason not to play it

A bit of an over-simplification of my argument. I think the system works best when you have technically gifted players who're comfortable on the ball, passing quickly on the deck and good at killer passes. I don't think that describes many of our players. They have plenty qualities but they're not the most technically gifted bunch, evidenced by lots of slack passing all season. It's not about being world class, it's about the kind of player you are. For example the system suits a Barrie McKay far more than a Middleton or Candeias.

29 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Our style is wing-play. This suits a 4-3-3. Man City cross it into the box all the time, and they're playing with either one of Aguero or Jesus, who are tiny! 

I confess I haven't seen them recently, but when I watched them last season their style of play was incomparable to ours, a big difference on the style and players type front. Mostly playing on the deck and getting a lot of joy from getting to the byline from smart through balls. And at that time Sterling and and Sane were on the wings and looking far more like wing forwards than just left and right midfielders like ours, and with proper creative players in the middle with both Silvas and De Bruyne.

I'm not saying we should never use it but Gerrard claimed he'd be flexible on formation and willing to change things but it seems it's not even up for debate.

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

I feel you're implying that the "madness of playing 1 striker" is a failure of the system. It's not. 

I think the system a team plays needs to suit the players they have and the style they are used to playing. To me there is a disconnect between those things.

In terms of the players; Barcelona play a 4-3-3 as far as I know but they manage to get Rakitic, Coutinho, Messi and Suarez on the pitch. Our Suarez is Lafferty, our Rakitic is Arfield, our Messi in Candeias and our Coutinho is Grezda. We just don't have the technical ability in our side to really do the system justice. The so called 4-3-3 becomes a 4-5-1 in reality.

Style is the other issue for me. Barcelona's technical ability is off the scale, Messi plays fast one-twos inside and jinks past players. They are very comfortable playing on the deck and that's their instinct because they're so good at it. Our style is pretty traditional. We try and get the ball wide and whip balls in the box. And we very often play long balls, especially away from home. This style really benefits from two strikers as we've seen over the years with Mccoist-Hately, Novo-Prso etc etc.

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

I agree there should be more players in the box, but there should be more in the 4-3-3. If the winger's crossing, the other winger, the striker and at least 1 midfielder should be in the box. 

A lot of crosses come from deep, especially from the likes of Barisic and Tav, and this just isn't possible/feasible. It's normally Morelos up against two big centre backs. If the ball doesn't fall perfectly it will be hoovered up by the second centre back. 

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

Anyone see the ball boys in the Olympiakos-Milan game? Olympiakos needed the win, and to run down the clock and stop attacks they were throwing balls onto the pitch. It might have been the fans -- like Feyenoord. 

1 hour ago, Whosthedado said:

Rapid were doing that towards the end of our game too

Surely that's an automatic fine from UEFA? They're fining clubs these days for far less.

Another demonstration of the madness of playing 1 striker against diddy opposition. I understand sacrificing a striker for a centre mid against Celtic but how many times do we need to see that 3 centre mids is a total waste against these teams, and how badly missed the second striker is with the dozens of balls launched into the box. 

Also, 22 corners and no headers on target from them by my count. Further proof that we are pathetic in the air and need to recruit players who can turn our corners into goals as well as working on them in training. Has nobody spotted Celtic are very weak in this area too and it’s a clear goalscoring opportunity against them?

48 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I hope Allan and Gerrard are scouring Europe to find a solution.

Exactly, it’s not going to be solved with more Sportscene scouting with the likes of Jones

21 minutes ago, Bill said:

And who decided a few weeks ago that the long ball to a lone front man was worth another try?

Totally agree. If you’re going to do long ball at least have two forwards who can do something with it, Prso and Novo style. 

7 hours ago, ian1964 said:

 

?

if true he better be cheap

50 minutes ago, ian1964 said:

Candieas is a far better winger as is Kent, it is a toss up between Grezda & young Middleton who is better, IMO. But again we all see things different, the beauty of football

As you say we all see things differently. We haven’t seen a great deal of Grezda and certainly not in a settled side winning games but I think he’s better than both and will show it soon. 

7 minutes ago, buster. said:

Grezda is a player who has ability but would seem to be in one of two camps, 1) needs time to adapt / lacks pre-season isn't 100% or  2) a player who won't take to the Scottish game / pressure of playing for a big club.

I actually think it's mostly to do with how the team has played in the past few games and the fact he's often been brought on after we've largely already blown it and things are a bit frantic and hopeless. Due to our set up and a lack of confidence it seems we haven't played fluid football in the final third and the wingers have been isolated and up against it. I think if he started every game on the same wing (left or right) and if we hit form and started attacking teams properly we'd see him flourish. I see more ability in him than any of our wingers.

8 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I don't think we were ever going to deviate from the 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1.

That's the crux of the matter. I'm fine with this formation against decent teams who come out a bit, but not against teams who pose little to no threat because I'm not convinced we have the creative attacking midfielder necessary to break teams down consistently, and I think the evidence this season backs me up on that.

Against last night's opposition with their poor goal-scoring record and us needing the win I'd have gone 4-4-2 and taken the game to them. If that simply isn't happening then 4-2-3-1 with one of the defensive mids swapped out for Grezda.

15 hours ago, Rousseau said:

His performances may have dipped recently, but I don't think, at least on the pitch, it warrants an early termination of his loan. 

 

Maybe he's struggling to cope with the demands? Strange considering he's a Liverpool player.

I think he has bags of talent and could flourish if positioned behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1. 

However the way this is looking I think there may be more to this than ability. I think Gerrard has issues with his attitude and willingness to follow instructions judging from post match comments.

Just now, Rousseau said:

We'll need to agree to disagree.  

 

I don't think the tactics were bad, a certainly not "shocking" -- a lot of the "three defensive midfielders and only one natural winger" complaint was forced; Ejaria, Kent, Candeias all out etc. -- but, like @Frankie says, a change earlier would've been better. 

 

 

We'll agree to disagree as you say. It wasn't forced for me because Grezda should have started ahead of one of the 3 anchor men and ideally Lafferty too. Their record showed they had little to no goal threat but were - ironically - the toughest team to break down in the group. 

50 minutes ago, buster. said:

To start with, Lafferty is relatively fresh and needs to come to the party on Sunday and lead the line well, he looked sharp in his short cameo in Vienna and I'd be tempted to puch Barisic up one and give Middleton a rest. We have to give Grezda more minutes and hope he starts playing. Finaly, I hope McCrorie now gets a run, if he can get back to how he played a year ago we'd be in better shape.

 

Agree with all of that. Would love to see us go out and attack teams properly with Lafferty and Morelos both starting and on top of the two centre backs, and Grezda and McCrorie coming in too.

Grezda will come good when he's playing in a system where people know their jobs and he is fed the ball and supported properly. The wingers' job is far easier when you have two strikers. I've played on the wing often enough and the first thing you look for when you receive the ball is the nearest striker to play a one-two with to allow you to get in behind the man. And we saw again last night that Grezda is absolutely rapid.

55 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

A class and a half better than anything we faced ...

Yeh Salzburg are on a different planet to Rapid, 25 points ahead of them after only 17 games. 

52 minutes ago, BlackSocksRedTops said:

When you consider we are 1pt better off than we were at this time last year it shows how erratic we have been.

It does. Europe hasn’t helped, but it doesn’t excuse the number of points we’ve dropped. 

10 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

How many attempts did Souness, Walter, McLeish and Advocaat had before navigating these many games in Europe before being sent out?

All disappointed in Europe but let’s face it they’d have killed for games as easy as we’ve had. This turned out to be a gift of a group; all three have had their managers sacked and for good reason, Villarreal 17th in La Liga and you could tell, Rapid 8th (out of 12) and you could tell, Spartak 4/5th and were terrible at defending. A bit of bad luck here and there yes but we got what we deserved in the end.  I know some people don’t like the negativity so I’ll leave it there but I am so disappointed in our tactics tonight, not our players primarily.  

To end on a positive note; Jack, Barisic, Morelos and McCrorie had good games. 

3 minutes ago, BlackSocksRedTops said:

Not sure if the tactics were that bad tbh. With more quality and better decision making we could have had a decent result.

2 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I don't think the tactics were that bad. 

 

It was more the execution of it that disappointed me. We couldn't string two passes together.

We’re playing a bottom half Austrian team who have scored less goals than anybody else in the league (but have a decent defensive record) and we set up with three defensive midfielders and only one natural winger and one striker. It’s shocking. Of course we weren’t going to score. Especially after the last couple of games when it was very similar with attacking players thrown on when our opponents can afford to just sit in, are we learning nothing?

The tactics tonight have been horrendous. We needed a win, they only needed a point. Yet we set up with three destroyers in centre midfield as if we’re visiting the Neu Camp. Then when, shock horror, it is still 0-0 late in the second half we start chucking men forward and get caught. So disappointed in Gerrard tonight. We’re going out to a side who are 8th in the Austrian league and have played like it tonight. 

I’d see how that goes and then if there’s no change go 4-4-2 with another DM coming off for Lafferty.