Bill

Dundee Utd? Never heard of them.

I hate these interruptions for international football. Now we can get back to the real thing.

God forbid. Murray threw us to the wolves to save his own neck and could never be welcomed back.

No, not at all, why would you think there's a contradiction? There's clearly a distinction between ownership, together with the rights that go with it, and making a discretionary decision to give someone proxy voting rights on a case by case basis. For further clarification, those proxy arrangements are not ongoing. But my post wasn't about personal ownership preferences, it was about seeking clarity on the actual benefits that collective ownership has brought or is intended to bring, specifically in light of the proportional pre-emption rights that would come with any future share issue. Having 10% of the club's shares is one thing but would require Club1872 to maintain sufficient reserves to fund the purchase of 10% of any future issue if they want to continue to have a 10% holding, assuming that the level of shareholding is as important as is being inferred elsewhere in this topic. That's a lot of money and surely would only be worthwhile if that level of shareholding is actually delivering tangible benefits to it's members and the club. It also beggars the question of whether there is in fact a conflict of interest between creating future investment in the club via another share issue and maintaining the influence of Club1872. As I said previously, I would lose some value through dilution and am prepared to see that happen. However, if the effectiveness of Club1872 really does depend on maintaining at least its current percentage shareholding then it has more to lose than simple share value unless it is in a position to fund and fulfil its pre-emption opportunities.

I've accumulated a number of shares in the club, initially out of a sense of loyalty in the first issue and then progressively after the price fell significantly. I consciously avoided the RF and RST schemes simply because I prefer to make my own decisions and plough my own furrow. I fully expect to see the value of my investment crippled by the dilution of a future share issue but, since I have no pretence at influencing anything at the club, it won't disappoint me too much. If the deal is right I might even take up the next share offer. Which brings me to a question that you look best placed to answer. Its a genuine question and I've no wish to grind axes over it. It's this. While I'm happy to accept your assertion that 10% shareholding is an impressive total, are you saying that the accumulation of those share is the achievement - or is it something that only the ownership of those share allows Club1872 to do? If it's the former, will Club1872 be able to fund 10% of any future share issue or (like me) is it prepared to see its shareholding diluted. If it's the latter, what are the specific achievements Club1872 has achieved or hopes to achieve in the future as a result of its shareholding? These are probably quite obvious points to those of you who have followed the emergence of Club1872 but, as I've said before, I've paid little attention to it this far. Edit: I should perhaps add that I did place my own shares at the discretion of Vanguardbears in terms of voting privileges.

Do you know they're lying?

I didn't know they were playing until I logged on here this morning.

Interesting http://www.rangersfansvoice.co.uk/club-1872-caught-with-their-pants-down/

In general, I've always agreed with this. However, It's easy to be mouthy when you know all branches of the media will give you a sympathetic hearing and will sweep your excesses under the carpet. It's not so easy when you know the same media will ridicule and criticise whatever you say and turn it against you.

I don't think anyone was trying to limit comment on the manager, simply to have a thread where such comment could be more conveniently read or written without continually detracting from other topics.

Yes please, it's becoming tedious.

The one exception was Kevin Thomson, who continually emphasised the good things about Rangers and refused to be talk down by Sutton

It's now de rigueur for anyone working in the media in Scotland to cast Rangers in a bad light. They don't even think about it now.

Shame about Ryan Jack's red card but it's about time we stopped being bullied all over the park. Edit: Just like to add I hope the next bad tackle is against Terry Butcher

Sometimes turnarounds choose strange places to start. The importance of winning and winning together tonight can't be over-stressed.

Pedro sounds thoroughly deflated, which is unexpected. Managers don't usually get down because of confrontations with players. I just hope the board is making their support clear to him or we really will be in the soup.

:laugh2::laugh2:

It's the Daily Record so it's going to be bullshit

You can criticise how the acquired the land but we'd be more than happy if Rangers had just made this announcement. The hard hard truth is the people running Celtic are smarter, better connected and better resourced than the second raters in our boardroom. Until that changes we'll keep falling farther and farther behind them.

No, I think it was fairly predictable. Dodoo seems to lack maturity. I think he would be a difficult player to manage, continually needing his belly rubbed.

I'm sure this is obvious to you now but perhaps you should have known better than to trust anything to come out of this RST lookalike. The Trust was patently untrustworthy and from the little I've seen, Club1872 was shaken from the same tree by the same breed of monkey.

Miller's form has been rancid for a long time. The worse he gets on the park, the bigger the problem he becomes in the dressing room. The only issue I have with this latest news is that Pedro didn't make a statement saying what he had done and explaining why.

I really really hope Pedro is a sincere man and not just a dreamer

Let's be honest, there was no one worth a 7 on Saturday, let alone an 8. Foderingham 5 Tavernier 6 Cardoso 5 McCrorie 6 Hodson 4 Candeias 5 Jack 6 Dorrans 5 Windass 5 Pena 5 Morelos 6 Subs : Miller 3 Herrera 3 Nemane 3

Different name, same old shit. There are half a dozen or so people who need to disappear before anything will change, which is why I've paid little or no attention to Club1872.