bmck

the catholic school thing is really just for rhetorical effect. like dostoevsky - you present the strongest representation of an opponents position before measuring up the actual representation as a petty bastardisation.

i like the word 'fuck'; it's a word used all the time and has rich emotive connotations. it also serves the function of weeding out the easily offended at the start. but aye, just make it bugger so that easily offended people who dont watch films and stuff dont die at its use.

cheers man. it argues the point a little more harshly than i actually believe myself, but hopefully it'll be emotive enough to spark some debate. i'll wait to see if frankie wants to run with it before/toseeif we put it on the main site.

Only cowards insult people who don’t have an opportunity to defend themselves. The papers have turned this into a fine art –offended on behalf of imaginary people; offended at imaginary people. Every politician, newspaper hack, football club owner with their own little renegade-denouncer-of-great-evil fantasy has jumped on a bandwagon of their own creation to stand up for the Sectarianly Oppressed against the Sectarian Oppressors – getting to be the Goodie in a sea of Baddies. Politicians and newspaper hacks earn a living off this – it’s the very controversy that pays the bills. For Murray it’s a convenient way of sooking up to the liberal snobberies of broadsheets and hence deflecting any possible criticism of himself from there. But, Walter Smith? Now he’s standing up against this magical, mystical, barely tangible sectarianism as it vaguely exists in flux out on the internet? I’m not sure what the fuck is going on, but I’ve spent more time than I should on Rangers fansites and there isn’t bigotry tolerated anywhere. The battle is imaginary, and the only victims are the people who don’t have mass-media at their disposal to defend themselves.

This racist, sectarian, oppression that everyone’s standing up against simply doesn’t exist. I know a fair bit of Catholic history – it’s had its ups and downs, but there is an undoubted recurrent theme of genuine martyrdom. Their founder, Jesus Christ, history attests, willingly died for what he believed. There’s disagreement about what he believed, of course, but that he died for it is argued only by a lunatic fringe of scholars. The first Catholics happily walked into the actual jaws of actual lions for what they believed. Through the lives of the Saints you see the recurrent themes of persecution, and an almost supernatural humility. Catholics have dished out their fare share of oppression, certainly, but they’ve also endured it. To dare to be an actual Catholic in the modern world, serving others and trying to live unselfishly and in the persual of goodness in a world of money and hate, I think, is a noble sort of persecution. In Glasgow, they have been historically persecuted, and as disagreeable as separate schooling may be to some, there is a genuine argument for it being a battle to retain a tradition people still find important, despite it not being the popular one. Catholics feel the burden of secular oppression today, and Catholics, as a group of people through history, have, at various points, suffered massive oppression.

But modern day Catholics in Scotland are not part of this group. Those complaining are rebels in love with their self created persecution. They have a job; the right to practice their faith freely; an Xbox and massive representation in parliament – the truth is that they're just not oppressed. People being eaten by lions is oppression – enduring the word ‘******’, or being told to fuck off back to Ireland if you love it so much, in a football ground, where you’re shouting and swearing yourself, and flying Irish flags, is NOT oppression.

When was the last time, in Scotland, as a Catholic, or as a person of Irish descent, lost a job for their faith or nationality? When was the last time they were publically flogged, or forced to sit at the back of a bus? When was the last time they were spat on, or stuck in a gas chamber?

Walter Smith, and the rest of you petty-rent-a-cause-reactionaries honestly think that you’re doing anything other than raping every memory of Actual Opression purely for the purposes of selling papers, appealing to the electorate or deflecting criticism, then you are deluded. Anyone who takes you seriously are their own punishment.

I’m quite sure there are a minority of morons of the internet spouting immature pish – this is true of all clubs, and I’m not sure why it is that Rangers feel it necessary to give an account for the goings-on of the internet – a medium that gives the most certifiable of nutters freedom of speech. Are Rangers to be the first regulators of the internet? Are they to succeed in eradicating pretend evil on the internet that the police battling real evil, with their massive anti-paedophelia budget, have failed?

I, for one, am fucking sick of being part of the faceless masses consistently brandished as a bigot simply for enjoying talking about my team online. The club are going to have to consider really what these constant, cowardly, jibes are doing to people who dedicate a large portion of their lives and energy to supporting the club. These same ‘bigots’, ‘spouting evil on the internet’ are undoubtedly the same people who buy the DVDs, the new strip every season, get the letters printed on the back for their children. The establishment are quite happy to call these people evil every time the media comes knocking at their door for an interview that will confirm the prejudices of their readership and ensures their profits the next day. The same large, weighty, moral conscience disappears as soon as these same people go and buy a substandard pie from the catering. So, Walter, and the rest of you – let’s stop tarnishing everyone with the same ill-informed brush, shall we? We are these masses of racial oppressors? I haven’t seen them; I don’t talk to them. You’re fighting for an imaginary cause but insulting real, tangible, people. Fuck off and stick to the football please.

i think people are laying a little too much into walter as a person - he should know better, but we all do stuuf we dont want to at the prompting of our boss.

that doesn't mean we should stand for it. the only way we can redress this though is to build up some steam - we know the papers court controversy, and we know they read all the stuff online. anyone fancy writing a "Fuck off Walter, we're not bigots" response for the main site?

i reckon we should start some petition and send it to rangers.

the aforementioned are internet-fans-who-arent-bigots-and-dont-appreciate-being-tarnished-by-ill-informed-generalisations-thankyouverymuch.

having said that, bluepool makes a good point. we're asking to be understood charitably while taking walter smith as uncharitably as we can.

I take it these wont be among Lawwel's league of saints heading to manchester this week.

for all of you. no fucking meta-discussions on the thread. any thread derailment that wanders into a) a discussion about the discussion, b) a discussion about the forum in general, or c) insults instead of discussion, will result in suspensions.

don't make statements that you aren't prepare to defend, or to clarify/modify if you change your mind. the rules arent there to bind people, they're born of experience (as is the british empirical tradition) to allow for decent discussions.

be polite to each other for fuck sake - no fake friendliness, but unless we start with the principle of respect we wont get a decent discussion on the go. there are plenty of forums where you get to shout your tastes over and over again, but this isnt one of those forums.

it's tit for tat, but jms since you've arrived here all you've done is either moan about other people, or the forum itself - if it's all so shite, you should probably expect to be told to gtf. but moan away, we can handle a bit of venting - it just becomes tiresome if it's kept up all the time.

any complaints about each other or the forum should be directed to frankie or myself - dont litter threads with this pish.

given that i'm contradicting my own derailment stuff with this post i'll give it a rest now. we've never ever really had to moderate here - mostly its all taken care of itself because people are generally respectful. no-one can be arsed with having to start that, so lets all be merry.

now, what does everyone think of murray? :cheers:

no, you dont put brown sauce on sea bass at all.

take it its off limits too staff you should newsnow it.

When does Charlie Adam release his 2009 calendar?

i always had my suspicions about you m8. that's all i'm saying.

they're just editing out of fear incase we riot again, it's got nothing to do with the complaints.

edit or we'll riot, edit or we'll riot - oh oh, oh oh. wooo!

why anyone buys this pish is beyond me.

can you call something an independent body if they are paid for by the club?

i like cotters sense of drama - he knows how to work a crowd

Tell me something mate how come when a statement such as the above is made, which to be honest is quite groundbreaking for the trust and should in all honesty have created quite a bit of debate is basically being ignored on this site.

the famine song issue has been thoroughly debated here.

Now when you consider that their are quite a few posters with thousands of posts on here, also ones who don't post at all, and whenever I come on the board, [if it would stop loggin me out after about 10-15mins], their are only a handful on at most , I wonder in what direction the board is going as it seems pretty useless putting a thread up and waiting a couple of days for a few posts in reply.

like all sites we get busier and quieter as people fit it it in around their lives. if you make a clever point you'll get answered. i dont think people are going to keep discussing things they've been discussing all week just because the trust said pretty much what anyone would have expected them to say anyway in their new militancy. the rst are pretty much irrelevant now for me, to be honest.

No having a go, but as you seem one of sensible ones just asking a question cheers. :D

its no bother man. if you stick around you'll see we're busy quite often - do your bit and keep posting and we'll be all the better for it.

as for the logging out issue - make sure you check the "remember me" button, and have your browser set up so that cookies are enabled. send me a pm if it's still not workign for you.

It's been on youtube.

dear god. what an insane world we live in. now nutters on youtube have become generally representative of groups of people. we're all doomed.

i dont need to be convinced about the papers tendency for duplicity. but if that verse has never been sung at a game, how do they know about it at all?

"Why don't you go home, why don't you go home, the famine's over, why don't you go home."

what does this refer to:

However, the verses of the song are undeniably racist, accusing Irish immigrants of, among other crimes, raping their children, and Strathclyde Police have confirmed that they consider the singing of such songs as an arrestable offence.

what are the full words?

i dont find it offensive. its petty to be bothered about it at all. just like it is to be bothered about f e n i a n.

ridiculously good analysis if a little worrying. i wish the press would do more things of this sort so that the average fan would be better informed.

He's back in full training. Reports of his demise have been greatly exaggerated

excellent! i tend to think the younger footballers have these sorts of injury, the more likely they are to overcome it. really looking forward to him pushing sasa for a place.

anyone know what's happening with stephen smith?

there's not much i can do about the 13 mins just now i'm afraid. i'll look more into it when i get a chance.

pete, you should update your timezone in the profile for you dutchies.

The last thing I expected was coming onto a Rangers website and reading that a planned celebration of a part of our history had 'Died a death' and a poster rejoicing in it's failure, possibly on the Huddleboard but not here surely.

this is so whiney. rangersness and your position aren't the same thing. whether this day does represent our history, or whether we even should be copying celtic and harking back to vague roots at all, are all up for discussion here. let's leave the your-probably-a-tim-if-you-dont-think-the-same-as-me-about-something alone, it's like crass bullying.