bmck

it's not quite mocking to say someone's better than someone else.

Very merry Christmas to you too sir.

He gets one rule overturned and he appoints himself moderator of the moderators!

Why do they hark after MON so much? Strachan was more succesful in every sense, and on a smaller budget. Numpties.

No it isnt.

Typical copper, provoking violence.

I'll see your vickies and raise you one raspberry.

MF, I denied the thread had been closed because I thought it hadn't. I then saw it had, immediately admitted my mistake and said I'd look into it. I sent you a full PM, once I knew what happened, saying what had happened. I also explained why it wasn't immediately re-opened, and why I didn't know why it was closed in the first place. I really don't think you've been hard done by in this, and it wouldn't hurt to look at things a little more charitably. We're clearly not evil people bent on stiffling you - this level of contention is silly, and it's the right word. It took a day, but we investigated what happened, re-opened the thread and in the process had an open discussion about the use of the word, which is a wider issue, and have accordingly changed our policy. A day's hardly a long time to wait, and it would all have happened whether you'd approached the issue contentiously or just simply asked in a normal manner anyway.

On the other hand it may be the utmost expression of moral and ethical responsibility in a civilised society. "If I want to stick up for the Jews I will. Nobody can stop me". Factually untrue in Nazi germany, yet not lacking in moral depth or ethical responsibility.

I really hope this is the bubbles on the surface of someone within the corridors of power starting to fight back.

I'm not sure why you'd think I would want to stop you. I certainly sing all those songs.

To be honest I have heard quite a few people making fenian bastard comments about people going into/out of chapels and or blessing themselves etc. The point is it's ambiguous, but that they're claiming all the amiguous ground that should be the realms of free speech as their own.

Your disgust is duly noted. I'm not sure who closed the thread or why, but as you already know we'll certainly look into it. Cheers.

Was waiting for that. I just think you get the best debate when you get the strongest presentation of all sides.

Mate, just to be clear. This isn't my stance. I'm just trying to argue the case for it being as it is. I don't really know what I think. My own choice would be for it to be unstarred and moderated on a case by case basis I think.

Agreed, it's a shocking erosion of both freedom of speech and a political power play by the Catholic church. That no-one in any position of authority - be it supporters groups, our inglorious leader, media, politicians etc - have the balls to stand up these people is utterly shocking. When you start making criminals/bogeymen of ordinary decent people you're on the road to ruin. The tims think they're righteous in everything they do to us because we're fundamentally evil - the exact same mentality as the crusades. They're an empty vacant lot.

And before that they weren't winning on breach of the peace charges for people singing the famine song combined with shouting things like fen1an bastard etc. But this is all becoming a bit tiresome. The basic point is that we're covering our arse - both in unlikely legal scenarios and in ensuring we're above reproach whilst trying to denounce anti-sectarian things. Rightly or wrongly, that's the reason. Whether this is smart foresight or weak pandering is upto you to decide. I was once sued by my own adopted sister for giving her a mobile phone for free because she's derranged. It had no basis in law, but I still had to spend a few hundred quid having lawyer's letters written. It's arguable that even that guy's charge was false, and had no basis in law, but the guy still got done. You seem to be arguing for the sake of it now, Zappa. I stated from the outset that the chances are extremely small but there's precedent for both ****** being deemed illegal, websites being shutdown/censored/prosecuted for things that are written on them, and fen1ans (oops) being pathologically interested in pursuing it. The stars are there in a vague and blunt will to express the site's non-condoning of sectarianism from any legal, moral, pragmatic etc attack. End of story. Your responses are just variations on the "It's unlikely" I admitted in the opening post.

To be blunt it is pandering to them. But it's because they're winning. We're all responsible for that.

Cheers dude. I think the chances of us getting hassle are small, and the truth is that the most likely reason is that we don't want to be seen to be sectarian. Especially with what's happened recently I can understand why people might be getting a bit pissed off with this, as we've pranced around so much not wanting to be seen to be sectarian that we're now being dictated to left right and centre. Even still, I just don't think we're the right avenue of any sort of frustration for this - we're culpable, in doing things like this, for perpetuating the situation but the real reason we're in this state is because no-one who has any Real Power - like politicians, businessmen, media people - are willing to go against the grain.

I think that's me fixed it now - not like me to add absurdity to confusion

Mate, I changed my original post because when I read it back it sounded un-necessarily blunt and to address this point. The main point that you're missing is that it's been deemed racist in law in vague and uncertain ways, and that website owners are responsible for what's said on their website in vague and uncertain ways. In the past websites have been held responsible for things like releasing player's addresses, there's precedent. Chances are small, as I've said.

Sorry mate. We star out the word F*N*An and it's been suggested we're wrong to do so. I've tried to say why it is and asked people to discuss whether they think it should be starred out or not - whether's its smartly assuring we're above reproach, or cowardly surrendering the contested ground by admitting there's something wrong with it.

Website owners are potentially liable and have been prosecuted for unmoderated slander and copyright infringement in user generated content. Like I said, chances are infinitely small tho I wouldn't put it pass the tims in their crusade to give it a go. The main point's still point 2.

Cheers mate. To be 100% clear, my own view is that it's an abberation things have got to the stage where the word fen1an is legislated, and it's shameful, as a support, we've allowed it to happen to the extent we're willing to censor ourselves on a message board. I think some sort of collective, organised, smart and systematic approach has to be taken to redress this - but pointing at our decision to star out a word as if we're somehow responsible for this state, or guilty of perpetuating it, seems to me absurd. People wanting other people to do what they themselves, and we ourselves, should be doing effectively out in the real world if it's that important. On the other hand though, the road to defiance starts with small steps, and it may be worthwhile to unstar the word even if just for that reason. This country's going in a very ugly direction but it's their highly politicised and motivated outlook versus our apathetic one that is the cause - the word's starred because they're winning, and it seems rich to ask us to buck a trend that people aren't willing to buck themselves out in the real world. But I agree it's playing into their hands, but it's only because they hold the cards at the minute. Whether it's smart or cowardly for us to cover our back in this manner is for people to decide. but I think the old looking for the specks in others' eyes while you've got a plank in your own advice is pertinent here.

This misses the point, though. It makes people have to bend the official position, or whatever, to do it - it makes them more responsible for their own words, and us less responsible for their words. Which seems to me perfectly fair and as it should be. If I want to say fen1an, I have the same option.