ian1964

Agreed,he can play another season in the SPL easy,IMO,however the CL is where he will struggle with pace.

Manchester United's Champions League quarter-final at Bayern Munich on Tuesday is not only an on-field contest between two of Europe's great clubs - it also represents a clash of two very different financial philosophies. While at United the talk is of takeovers, Bayern supporters are safe in the knowledge that such a scenario is unlikely to ever unfold at the Allianz Arena. The system by which Bundesliga clubs are regulated, with an emphasis on strict financial rules and licensing, means Bayern are debt-free, allowing the club to offer some tickets for as little as 12 euros (�£11) in a world-class stadium. That is a world apart from the Premier League model of light-touch regulation that has allowed the United States-based Glazers to saddle United with debts of �£716.5m. It has become a debt too far for thousands of their fans, so much so that the Red Knights, a group of wealthy United followers in alliance with the Manchester United Supporters' Trust is attempting to wrest control of the club. Stuart Dykes is a Manchester United fan living in Germany. He also supports Schalke and pays 13 euros (�£12) to stand in the Veltins-Arena and watch his team. The cost of the ticket includes free public transport to the stadium from certain areas. Membership of the Gelsenkirchen club costs him 96 euros (�£86). "In England, the Glazers are allowed to come in, while Portsmouth can have four owners in a season. That cannot happen in Germany," Dykes told BBC Sport. "The German model means Bayern are attracting lots of investment but without the risk. It's completely different from United - it's a whole different philosophy. "Bayern looked at what was happening in the United Kingdom and said: 'We don't want that to happen here'. They wanted to maintain control of the club." Arguably, this financial prudence has come at a price, having limited the ability of German clubs to compete with their big-spending English counterparts, who can offer higher wages to players, in the Champions League. Bayern were the last German side to be crowned champions of Europe in 2001, having lost to United in dramatic fashion two years earlier. English clubs have triumphed twice since 2001 and appeared in the final on six occasions in the last decade, a period in which only one other German club has reached the final, Bayer Leverkusen losing to Real Madrid in 2002. "When clubs can spend what they want, like in the Premier League, it's very difficult for German clubs to succeed," said Antonia Hagemann, project manager with the UK-based Supporters Direct organisation, which has carried out a Uefa-funded study of club ownerships and fan involvement across Europe. "But there's a fair chance that they will have the last laugh. The German model doesn't restrict success, but the Premier League has set up a 'rat race' for everyone in Europe. It sees football as a brand - it is not interested in regulation." At the heart of the German model are the fans, rather than owners or shareholders. Bundesliga clubs broke the 2bn euro (�£1.8bn) level for the first time in 2008-9 It was the seventh successive season in which an attendance record was set - averaging 42,000 a game Average ticket price: 20.79 euros (�£18.70) - about twice as much as in the Premier League The Bundesliga is the European champion of sponsorship deals - 573m euros (�£515m) Until the late 1990s, all Bundesliga clubs were 100% owned by members - fans who pay to be part of the club. However, the clubs recognised the need to compete with their European rivals and that this might not have been the best way to do it. So some, including Bayern, spun off their professional football "sections" into outside limited companies, separate from the parent club, to attract investment. Under Bundesliga rules, members must own 50% of the shares plus one extra vote of these spin-offs. This is the so-called 50+1 model, which makes it impossible for private investors to take over a club. It is this model that many view as the best in Europe - and a far cry from the Premier League, where most clubs are struggling with debt. Earlier this season, Portsmouth became the first top-flight club to go into administration. A Uefa report in February revealed that the total debt of Premier League teams - �£3.4bn - is greater than that of the rest of Europe's top-flight clubs put together. And although the Premier League clubs make up more than half of club assets in Europe, Manchester United's debt is almost more than �£150m higher than that of the 36 clubs in Germany's top two divisions. That is because Bundesliga clubs must submit information about their budgets and expected expenditure, and prove they are financially stable in order to play in the league. There are also check-ups during the season, and licences can be withdrawn. Second Division club Arminia Bielefeld were deducted four points by the Bundesliga for breaching the terms of their licence after suffering a financial shortfall and were fined 50,000 euros (�£45,000) for the violation, which they admitted in February. "I think the strict system is just one of the reasons preventing them [German clubs] from competing in the Champions League," said Michael Ashelm, of the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper. Robben and Ribery You can watch Robben and Ribery for just �£11 "In the past, the German clubs had many problems with things like defunct training systems and antiquated managers. This changed a lot with a new generation of managers and coaches. "On the other hand, the financial system prevented the clubs from a disaster and allows for stable conditions - in contrast to England or Italy." And of the comparison between top-flight clubs' debt in England and Germany, he said: "You need a strong value as a club to carry such debt as Manchester United and Liverpool - and the value of Bundesliga clubs is under it. "This season Schalke had many problems with their liquidity. They have debts of about 140m euros (�£125m)." Schalke's debt accumulated from the construction of their new stadium, which was eased by a 100m (�£90m) euro sponsorship deal with Gazprom. "For a big German club, this is life-threatening," Anselm added. The German model does have its critics. Hannover 96 president Martin Kind has been a long-standing and vocal opponent of the 50+1 rule, and challenged it in the courts last year. However, 32 of the 36 Bundesliga clubs rejected his proposal. "Everyone in Germany used to look at the Premier League as the ideal model, but now the big clubs in England are in serious trouble," said Hagemann. "I tell everyone not to follow the Premier League model. Fans in England don't really have a say. "The English model is the worst model - its clubs have a perception a spending more money than they have." Tony Woodcock, the former England striker who had a spell in Germany with Cologne during the 1980s, says the financial restrictions placed on Bundesliga clubs are not necessarily a disadvantage. He believes Bayern are the "leading example" of how well run the German clubs are. "Bayern are a bit down the pecking order in terms of attracting players compared to other European teams, but they do have some top players," he said. "They have still attracted Franck Ribery, Mario Gomez and Arjen Robben - they have upped it a gear. To get them, you have to offer good rates. Bayern realise this." 606: DEBATE Financial fair play? Woodcock also believes that English clubs could learn a lesson or two from their German counterparts in how to treat their fans. "For my first training session in Cologne, 10,000 people turned up," he said. "In Germany, they welcome the fans to the training ground but in England it's like Fort Knox." A combination of reasonably priced tickets to watch the likes of Ribery and Robben strut their stuff in superb facilities ensures that Bayern fans are far happier than United supporters in the way their club is run, according to Dykes. It remains to be seen whether over the next few months the Red Knights and Must can bring a similar degree of German prudence to Old Trafford. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8589872.stm

I won't argue with that

Not to forget the great strike he had only for the Hertz keeper to produce save of the match

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6_9qsYxigE]YouTube- ROBBIE KEANE JOINS CELTIC[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gugq9S1cag&feature=related]YouTube- Keano here to save Celtic[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2soXAGT8dGM]YouTube- CELTIC V ST MIRREN 0.4 (SACK TONY NOW)[/ame]

Where were you Robbie ? :spl: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm2ci4ckfRM&feature=PlayList&p=7C4023F695675C00&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=8]YouTube- Rangers 1-0 Celtic 28/02/2010 Edu Goal[/ame]

Boyd hasn't scored for a while so I expect him to blast back at some point

Couple of mid week fixtures this week

St Johnstone 0 The Champions 3 Boyd hat-trick :spl:

Has the points gap not increased since Keane arrived ?.

Really?,I thought Davis was excellent on Saturday!!,just shows how we all see games different

It's amazing how Boyd gets slated for only scoring against the diddy teams yet here we have Keane getting praise for it!!!! Miller is scoring a few goals this season as well, how many did Keane score in the OF game?

Robbie Keane has bagged 11 goals from 11 games since joining Celtic at the end of the January transfer window and Ronnie Esplin argues that his short time in the SPL should not hinder his chances of picking up the top award. Voting for the Scottish Football Writers' Association's player of the year will commence next month ahead of the May 9 awards dinner in Glasgow and if Robbie Keane continues with his scoring form over the next few weeks then he will mostly likely get my nomination. So what if he only arrived at the end of January? I offered that thought to some colleagues on Saturday after the Irishman scored a well-taken double against Kilmarnock at Celtic Park to take his tally to 11 in 11 since he signed on loan from Tottenham and received some puzzled looks. How can a player who has only played for six weeks so far be the best player in Scotland this season, was the general feeling. Quite easy. Keane is streets ahead of anyone we are watching at the moment. Most games have appeared little more than a training ground exercise for the Republic of Ireland skipper while he awaits his return to England and indeed, if there is any criticism that can be levelled at him is that he has not yet reached 20 goals. Having seen most of his games since he arrived north of the border, I believe that to be a conservative figure given the chances he has passed up or had saved. He may still reach that figure, certainly if a Celtic side free from the pretence of chasing Rangers and with Neil Lennon in charge, dominate games in the way they did against Killie. Would it be an indictment of the SPL? Probably. But, again, so what? Have we forgotten our club's European results earlier in the season? Our champions are strolling to their second successive title having shrugged off their worst-ever result in Europe against a hitherto unknown Romanian outfit whose name most people could still not spell. I am aware of the arguments against Keane's nomination other than the brevity of his stay. He didn't play well against Rangers at Ibrox. Agreed, but he was given no service. He is Robbie Keane, not Diego Maradona. He played in the Celtic team which cost Mowbray his job when they lost 4-0 at St Mirren. Yes he did and indeed played poorly that night. But you can't blame Keane for Mowbray's desperate tactics which left the Parkhead side with six strikers on the pitch fighting for space found only in abundance in the Hoops' defence. He was brought to help Celtic win the league and that won't happen. Agreed again but if it weren't for his goals against Dundee United and Falkirk in particular, the Parkhead side might be contemplating the disastrous possibility of finishing third. They might not be looking forward to an Active Nation Scottish Cup semi-final against Ross County either. The football writers, by common consent, are not spoiled for choice this season. Motherwell keeper John Ruddy has impressed and once again Rangers striker Kris Boyd has come up with the goods although he is going through a barren spell at the moment by his high standards. Although we tend to go overboard in this country when we see a midfielder who can control the ball with ease and pass it to a team mate, Steve Davis has risen above the rest in prompting the Ibrox side towards the SPL title. However, Keane is simply a class above. There is no one better in Scottish football than the Irishman. He is mobile, intelligent, mentally sharp and can make and score goals. Is he to be penalised because he has not played as many matches as others? Do we overlook his contribution in order to mask the inadequacies of our game? In microcosm, if an interval substitute scored a second-half hat-trick to win a game would we refrain from naming him man-of-the-match because he had only played 45 minutes? Keane hasn't got my support just yet. I'm siding with Davis at the moment and Boyd is also in the frame. However, if I don't vote for the Celtic striker it won't be due to length of service. http://sport.stv.tv/football/166447-playing-half-a-season-shouldnt-stop-keane-picking-up-player-of-the-year/

Frankie,I typed in dw, for Danny Wilson, but it came up with Davie Weir, so when I edited it the big grin appeared

Mark Hughes is looking for a Champions League fighting fund in order to lure him to Celtic Park. (Daily Mail) Ipswich manager Roy Keane says he doesn't deserve to be in the running for the job at Celtic. (Daily Express)

Ah!,so if anybody makes a mistake you get caught out and exposed with a big grin

The big grin in my post,how did that happen?

Rangers Supporters' Trust confirmed it is working on an "exploratory document" with the aim of taking over Sir David Murray's majority shareholding. Any RST plan would involve some degree of fan ownership but would need to be underwritten by either a wealthy individual or consortium. And the Trust has been in detailed discussions with a third party. But RST spokesman David Edgar said: "At this point, it's an exploratory document only." Holders Rangers lead the Scottish Premier League and have already won the Co-operative Insurance Cup but are �£31m in debt. This is another step towards what the trust has been working on and continues to work towards, which is full supporter ownership Rangers Supporters Trust spokesman David Edgar Responding to reports of talks between the Trust and a multi-millionaire businessman, Edgar stressed: "We can't comment on speculation over any names mentioned with regard to underwriting or backing the scheme. "And we stress that all discussions must remain private and are at a very early stage." Edgar described talks both with the club and potential backers as "positive" but insisted it was "too early to say" whether the RST proposal would ultimately end in a takeover bid. "Rangers find themselves in extraordinary circumstances and, at the moment, it's pertinent to assess all options," he said. "Anything the Trust does, we study to make sure it's viable before we go down that path." London-based property tycoon Andrew Ellis was this month revealed to be considering a bid for Rangers. Edgar insisted Ellis' interest had no effect on the Trust's plans, adding: "At the moment, discussions are ongoing with all parties who would be involved with the scheme. MY SPORT: DEBATE Give your reaction to the fans' proposal "This is another step towards what the trust has been working on and continues to work towards, which is full supporter ownership. It hasn't come about overnight." Last year, the RST invited representatives of Espanyol and Hamburg to Ibrox to discuss their members-run models. Rangers have been working to a business plan in conjunction with Lloyds Banking Group since Murray stepped down as chairman in August. The influence of Lloyds has sparked protests from supporters at some matches this season. Manager Walter Smith and his backroom staff have been working without contracts since January in a bid to ease the financial pressure on the club. The Ibrox boss has also not recruited any new players, apart from on loan, since August 2008. The Beeb

^^ very good Frankie :box:

Aye,same for me, :sn: was all over the place,defended well and should have had a hatrick, Danny Wilson deserves special mention as he strolled the game and scored with a terrific header :spl:

I think it's too late for the BHEASTS to think they are wrong,they have managed to convince themselves that it's true that '' the establishment '' and the refs have made sure Rangers win the league,luckily everybody else have not bought into it,you can't reason with unreasonable people

DODGY DECISIONS IN OLD FIRM GAMES [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d76QwS6u0yw]YouTube- CELTIC ARE RIGHT . DODGY DECISIONS IN OLD FIRM GAMES HAIL HAIL[/ame]

doyle07 Yesterday, 4:16 PM Post #78 Member Avatar First team training [ * * * ] Posts: 163 Group: Members Member #23,540 Joined: 24 May 2009 Favourite all-time player Danny McGrain Miss Marple 28 Mar 2010, 03:57 PM Have given this topic a little more thought and I am more convinced than ever that the way to challenge is through the courts. Send that message to SFA and watch the changes happen. Surely there must be some eager legal starlets willing to take on that challenge or some older ones, if they were still up for the challenge. Agree, surely there can be some sort of approach to UEFA with all the video evidence of even just this season, to get them to act. Couple this with a background of the establishment team facing ruin unless they achieve success on the park. There is no incompetence this is only a smokescreen to say we get all sorts of decisions wrong, after all they would rather be identified as incompetents rather than the cheating hun bastards they actually are.