Gaffer

I agree with you. The board has made an error in sacking PC when we did. We appeared to be playing to a system for the first time in years, and although it wasn't as effective as we'd want it to be, it surely deserved a season or two to enable the manager to sort out the various positions. Pena has been dropped, and bizarrely is now being made a scapegoat by both Murty and the fans. As far as I remember Pena was the one scoring goals and developing the play in the final third. I've seen him play many times and he is a class player, despite how his movement looks sometimes. If there is anyone on here who couldn't see that, in my opinion you don't know football. This board has had my support, and I'll always be thankful to DK for what he has done to save us, but someone really needs to take control soon and lead this club. We need strong leadership that's going to be tough enough to support a manager and give him time. I thought they would do that. There's no coincidence that the world's most successful club had so few managers. We appointed someone and then supported them. We now appoint and discard like the other unsuccessful clubs. It's stupid and counter productive. It's also a slippery slope to be perceived to be supporting a player over the manager's decisions and that's what happened here with Miller. It was poorly managed by the board (and Murty) and I'm disappointed that so-called business men couldn't see that this was a bad move. There are consequences to managing situations badly like that and we are paying the price, and will continue to do so. As fans, we are also responsible and we have to take a long hard look at ourselves. Many of our so called supporters decided to oppose the manager before he even had one game with the club. And many others decided that a few bad results were enough to merit the sack. We are not what we were once, and have a long way to go to get back to that. And yet for some that is not appreciated. I've said it many times, but the thought of fan ownership is a frightening one for me. I'd rather have a single strong leader in charge rather than having many of my fellow fans decide. There are risks of both approaches, but in my opinion the chances of a single person screwing it up is a possibility. Our fans demonstrate that the chances of the them (us) screwing it up is a certainty.

I think you said it yourself Pete. If a manager can't get the best out of a player, he's not doing his job. Or does that only apply to PC?

Enjoy the experience with your boys! That last comment made me chuckle. Remember what you said to me???? It's funny how you change your own attitudes when you take your own children to games.

It's ironic that this week we were discussing the issue of LGBT and the need for acceptance of all at Ibrox. If only that same courtesy had been extended to PC. Alas, it appears that many supporters would not accept him from day one. Now he's gone, there are supporters who will continue to apportion all sorts of blame on him. I don't know if we have a particular problem with our support, or if that's the same with all clubs, but as we've discussed before I just hope our next manager can unite the fans. What a thankless task that is!!!

I can't wait to see how you calculated that Pete.

Excuse my ignorance on this, but why does the Premier league make a difference? I didn't think it made much of a difference even if we win it, other than the European football of course. I didn't realise it had such an impact financially.

This goes back to my point about the club not treating team building as importantly as it should. Clubs like ours seem to leave all team building matters to the manager, but that doesn't work. As you say, if there's a problem between the player and manager, who does the player go to? Some players leave. Some players speak out in the press. Some players even stop trying and just collect their salary. Someone of Miller's experience should have gone to the CEO or to the DoF. I don't necessarily want us to focus on this particular instance because the player and manager have made very specific mistakes. What it does highlight though is how quickly a situation can deteriorate at a club if the appropriate structure is not in place. It should be clear what the rules are, and what support is available. Rule number one has to be that what happens in the dressing room stays in the dressing room. This is the number one means of creating trust, and destroying it. If anyone at the club abuses this, they should be out. I'd make them come in at 6am to train alone every day until they left the club. There has to be a perceived and real consequence. Equally, the club should be clear about what a player should do if they feel they are being unfairly treated by the manager. The club needs to train someone to identify the difference between bullying, and a difference of opinion. If players feel they are being treated unfairly, at least it would give them a place to vent their frustrations, and possibly get a second opinion. The right person in that role could defuse situations quite quIcky, or equally quickly reach a conclusion that the player has to go - assuming it's not bullying. Why do clubs not treat this seriously? It makes no sense to me. I've seen teams made and destroyed because these simple principles are not followed. I appreciate that no football club is a big business, but it's important enough to spend the time, money and resources on installing this big business discipline.

A lot of really good points have been made in this thread and I'm enjoying the debate. There is however no question that we have a discipline problem. We have allowed a player to criticise the manager (via his agent) in the press and we have been perceived to back the player and not the manager. Equally however, PC should not have criticised MOH either in the press. He is a clever man and no doubt had his rationale for that, but it was wrong. These are absolutely fundamental problems in building a high performing team. It's amazing to me that some football clubs like our own are so poor at team building and what that means. We spend millions on the players and manager and then undermine much of the good work by allowing certain behaviours to develop. PC should have been told that under no circumstances EVER should he criticise any players in public. Equally, Miller should have been shown the door at the same time as the manager. We had an opportunity to make a statement about keeping issues in the dressing room, but we made a mess of it, and this will only develop further into a wider problem. This is where the board needs to step in and assert its authority. We can't allow this perception of players being allowed to criticise the manager in public (or vice versa) when they're upset. I think it was JohnMc that rightly mentioned the PLG era. He wasn't successful, but we also screwed up then by backing Ferguson and McGregor instead of the manager. The manager was (as PC is now) guilty of not getting results, but there was no excuse for the players undermining his authority. This behaviour just disgusts me, and I find it hard (or impossible) to support a player who does that. It's like a cancer in the club and we need to offload him, and any other dissenters asap. Players will always have issues and in a club of 20+ seniors players, they won't all be happy. That's fine, but it's what they do about it that makes the difference. I'm sure many of the Celtic players are unhappy about not playing, but if they spoke out they'd be out. Someone (again I think JohnMc) said that if the manager had been successful he could have sent Miller packing without criticism. I think that's true, but I don't think it matters. If anyone underminded one of my leadership team members, even if that leader was underperforming, that person would be out immediately and I'd get more support for the under-performer. Under performing is something that can be addressed. Bad behaviour is like a cancer and just needs to be cut out. I wonder what would have happened if Murty had left Miller out. Would Miller just keep quiet in the press, etc. Unlike many people (including his agent), I don't regard Miller as a model professional. Far from it.

I just hope that whoever gets the job can unite the fans, maintain discipline in the dressing room and reignite the enthusiasm. I've been bitterly disappointed recently, and not so much at the results, although they can hurt too. For any player (i.e. Miller) to use an agent in the press in the way he did is completely unacceptable to me. I wouldn't care if that player was Messi. He should have been out of the club. Instead, the club appears to get rid of the manager and then reinstate Miller to the first team. In the short term it appears to have worked because he got the win, however in the medium to long term this sends out all the wrong signals and I really hoped our club was better than that. I think the board needs to take a long hard think about the importance of discipline in a club, because we appear to have lost it. It was always one of those attributes that made us a club of class and respect, and I was always proud of that. Not now! As for the departure of the manager, I'm also very disappointed. I really wanted it to work with him because he brought many things to the club that I liked and respected. I'd have given him longer but I can understand the board's decision to do something now. For the first time in a very long time, it appeared we had a manager who had a very real and modern system. The players we had (and still have) are skilful enough to play that system, but what it showed is that they lack the toughness which is unfortunately a massive part of the game up here. When teams came for a fight, we didn't have the players who were up for it. In those games, we just didn't earn the right to play football. Until we find a new manager, I have to be honest and say that I'm struggling to find much to be enusiastic about, and as possibly one of the forum's most optimistic members, I don't know how the majority are feeling now. We can bring in a manager who gets us winning, and that will be fine for a while, but I personally need more than that. I need us to have an identity and an attractive style. Smith won us plenty of trophies, but without Laudrup and Gazza, there was very little by way of exciting play. I like McInnes as a person and for what he's achieved, but I seriously doubt if he can bring what's needed. I know Aberdeen fans are enjoying winning, but there's no way I could watch that 'quality' of football each week. So, it's now over to the board and staff at the club to deliver. For the first time in a while, I don't know who we are playing next, and I'm not particularly bothered either. I hate feeling this way about my team, but I can't help it. I noticed a few people saying we should take our time to get the right man in. That makes sense, but I can't imagine my enthusiasm returning until such times as we have an interesting appointment to support. Please make it quick!

Oh well, any uncertainty has been removed now. Miller will be going ASAP. His agent would not do this without his permission so it looks like they're engineering his exit from the club. Terrible! I wasn't his biggest fan anyway, but I never doubted his commitment, and he could have left with his head held high. This is a sad end to his career, and I'm disappointed in him. The agent is only doing as he has been instructed.

In some ways, he reminds me of Filipino Inzaghi. Anytime I watched him he looked slow, awkward, and just didn't have the physique or movement of a footballer. But just about every time I saw him, he scored. Until Messi and Ronald's came along I'm sure he held most of the major scoring records. Pena does look awkward, but it's not about a lack of fitness because he still looked like that when I saw him at his 'peak' a couple of years ago. He actually covered more ground than almost everyone else on the pitch last night. I think he's just built that way, but as long as he keeps terrorising defences, let's just enjoy it.

With regard to corners, I think I've mentioned this before, but corners are actually close to 'useless' if crossed immediately from the corner. Only about 1 in 11 corners ever result in even a shot at goal. It's amazing, but true. You need on average 70 corners to produce one goal, although some teams are particularly 'successful' and have a goal every 55 corners. The best way to increase your odds of scoring are to play a short corner, or play the ball back from the corner. Having said this, we went through a period under MW where I felt we would lose a goal every corner, but it wasn't as bad as it felt. This is why many informed managers prefer the set piece routines based around short corners. If you are the team in the ascendancy (which Tommy Wright was claiming), and you win a corner, you'd be as well kicking it straight out and giving a goal kick because there are more scoring chances created from closing down at an opponent's goal kick than you get from a corner. I remember a couple of top class Dutch players telling me that no one celebrates a corner like the British fans do. They just couldn't understand it. They felt it was like celebrating a throw in.

I don't necessarily want our players using underhand tactics off the ball John, but I agree that there needs to be a alot more grit. In the lead up to the first goal, Butcher, Gough, Amoruso, or anyone of that ilk would have made sure that ball was cleared, even if it meant taking out their own players or opponents as well as the ball. And to see Hodson pull out of that tackle just infuriated me. It's a simple thing like that which changes a game and he deserves pelted for that weakness. No matter what level you play at, that is just letting your team down. I wouldn't expect criticism to happen publicly, but I really hope the players and manager let him and the others know it's just not acceptable.

I've now watched replays of that Brown incident when he elbowed Morelos. The referee didn't see it or punish him for it, so I'm assuming this is exactly why we have the potential for retrospective action by officials. There is a wealth of video evidence so this should be an easy decision and ban for him. Yeah right! I've never subscribed to the paranoia previously, and I still prefer to think of bad decisions as being a result of poor refereeing rather than something more sinister, but this season has really made me question certain officials in the game. The Hibs game is still the most obvious example of bias that I've ever seen in football - EVER! If the officials don't do anything about Brown at the very least, there is something truly rotten in our game.

Actually, we all do. Every one of us cares where we are in the table. All we are disagreeing about is when that becomes important. For many of us, it matters at the end of the season, although mid way through the season is a decent time to take the temperature of our performances. Doing this in September is just ridiculous. But here's the thing. Many on this forum had decided that Pedro was a terrible manager before ANY games had been played. That's a fact, and they will continue to use any piece of evidence to prove their original opinion was correct. I actually believe that there are many who want him to fail, just so they can say "we told you so". Pedro has shown me that he has more passion and interest in Rangers than many of its so called supporters. None of us truly know yet if he will be a success at the club, but the man deserves time to show it one way or another. I think I'm going to have to take time out of the forum because it actually just winds me up when I read things like "we are Rangers, we should not settle for second". Just over a year ago we weren't even in the top 12. Let that sink in. And for those that think throwing money at a problem will solve it, it just shows you know nothing about building a football team. I don't actually blame you for that, because why would you know about it, but you're blaming a manager that really does (in my opinion) know how to do it. For the avoidance of doubt, I've seen enough over the past 2 games in particular to get excited about. I wish others did too, but understand if you don't. And for the avoidance of doubt also, I don't yet know if PC will achieve what I want him to, but at the moment there is NO-ONE ELSE (and by no-one, I mean not a single manager anywhere) that I would want as our manager right now. I'll be supporting him until at least the end of the season, because at that stage we will then know what he is capable of. Good luck Pedro. You've got the press willing you to fail. You've got some referees willing you to fail. You've got most other clubs willing you to fail. You've unfortunately got many of your own "supporters" willing you to fail. What a story if you could be successful despite that lack of support.

Pete, we know you've never liked Pedro from the start, but you do appear to twist things to suit your agenda. Yes Pena is better than Halliday, and yes the others are better than the players they replaced. But why don't you say: Is Jack better than Halliday? Is Morelos better than Waghorn? Is Candeias better than Forrester? The reason is because then you'd have to admit that he's made some really good signings. Our defence is much better than last year and the stats prove that. I really don't know what level of player you're expecting, but if you don't change your expectations, you'll be in for a few years of torment. So, rather than barking at the passing caravan, just try to remember where it was a few years ago. We are completely transformed as a club, albeit we have a few years of rebuilding ahead of us still.

No, but we've got a manager who clearly wants a shot at Brown. No wonder he was furious. How Brown gets away with everything is just bizarre. He's an absolute cretin and I don't think I can ever dislike a player more than him. In fact him and Neil Lennon are two peas in a pod. Repulsive individuals.

The first half was really exciting and obviously we should have had a penalty. I can't even begin to understand on what basis the referee chose not to give it. There is no one (not even their fans) who would have disputed it. The inconsistency from the ref in terms of bookings is just ridiculous. I've not seen replays of the Morelos booking yet but I didn't think he did anything wrong, and even if he did touch him, can someone explain what's different about the fouls from Armstrong and Griffiths because they didn't receive a card? And did anyone else see that thug Brown's elbow on Morelos? At half time I just hoped we could keep it going. We seemed to restart the second half a bit better than usual, but what a terribly sloppy goal to lose. What was Hodson doing? It also seemed like two of our players left it to each other rather than one of them taking control to clear it. That goal changed the game, as goals tend to do. That then forced us to make a change, and although Pena wasn't as effective as we'd want him to be, I felt he was the only chance we had of creating something of a link up with Morelos. Miller tries hard, but offers little. I'd like to think that Alves would have made a difference today in terms of experience and leadership, although I thought the young boy RM played well for only his second game. We really missed an attacking threat from our left wingback today. In a 4-2-3-1 (or equivalent), the wingbacks are critical and although Hodson worked hard also, he just doesn't have the technical ability of a DJ to help us break down the Celtic defence. There is a gap between us and Celtic, but it really isn't as big as I feared it might be. I'm already looking forward to the next one against them.

We're doing well here but this ref is doing all he can to ruin it. It was a stone wall penalty. Morelos gets booked for a nothing tackle but Brown can elbow Morelos of the ball?!? No wonder PC was furious there.

Say what you want about PC, but he's got some nerve putting out the team like this after only one test. Fantastic

Brilliant. We're going for it then!

Wow. If union thinks there's even a slim chance of a 0-0, there must be some degree of confidence building. Either that or he's been on something stronger than alcohol this morning. You feeling ok mate? That's the most positive thing I've seen you post. ;-)

That's fair enough TB if that's what you think. It is amazing though how polarising he can be. All my friends and family (without exception) really like and rate him, and we're all fully behind what he's trying to achieve. If ever there was proof that football creates differing opinions, this is it. Either way, I'm sure we are all right behind him and the team today. I take it you've still got the battle fever on TB.

I did say I was kidding about that Ian. Maybe it wasn't clear. I think we all hope you (and many of us) are wrong. If ever we needed a strong referee and an even stronger start by our players, it's today. If we are to have any chance, we need a little bit of luck too, and we've not had much of that either so far.

I really don't care if they get a fans of the year award. They'll have it for a year before it goes to some other club. We are the most successful club in the world, and we will have that forever. GIRUY