CammyF

Very little if I'm honest - I think its just my opinion of 'Scottishness' and supporting Scotland is different for theirs. Cammy F

It was the 'we hate Rangers more than you' chants at the ROI game in Dublin a few years ago that finally done it for me (along with the treatment dished out to Fergie and Neil McCann that evening). BTW, I was an ever present at Scotland games (at home) from about 1983 to 1989'ish and a frequent supporter until 1993ish... Cammy F

He was getting booed from the first minute of the game and maybe I'm being paranoid here, but if he was an ex-Hibs, ex-Hearts, ex-Aberdeen player, he wouldn't have been booed. There is still a (growing) anti-Rangers element at Scotland games that keeps people like me ( and I know it shouldn't) from returning to support Scotland. It'll never stop me wishing Scotland well Cammy F

What about the attacks on Rangers fans that aren't on youtube? What about the fans, all official Rangers Travel Club members, attacked prior to the game? Ther fans that were hounded of buses, kept in 'cells' and attacked if they questioned this style of Policing? What about the further attacks of the official Rangers Travel Club members as they were 'marched' from these cells along a tiny, narrow street where the Police and turned off all street lighting? Any fan stepping out of line was beaten by the Police. I was speaking to a guy yesterday who helped a lady from Liverpool who was at the game with her young son. Both were beaten by the Police and the lady never actually got into the game as she had a serious of panic attacks. The same guy told of a disabled Rangers fan who was put into a lift to get him to his seat and was LOST. The Police refused his 'helper' access to the lift and refused to look for him when he didn't appear at the game. Cammy F

Absolutely disgusted at the treatment Shota received from the Scotland 'fans' - you have to wonder if the club he played for, and loves, had anything to do with the booing.... Great win for Scotland, but not the greatest performance to be honest. Hard to pick a Scotland player our who played well for the entire 90 mins and thought that Georgia deserved a draw out of the game as they were the better team. Good to see AMc getting of to a winning start and carrying on from the foundations set by WS. Cammy F

Hope the English media are happy - chased Sven out and wanted him replaced by an 'Englishman'. Well, you got your wishes and England are now worse than they have been in many years. Pity Wales are doing so bad at the moment as with Scotland and NI flying, it would have been interesting to see a tourniment with Scotland, Wales and NI there and England not. Cammy F

Calscot, it was you that wrote a scathing post on those who are proud of the UF etc - I welcome any person with any views to support Rangers, do you? So I believe in most of the above (apart for hating catholics or craptic more than I love Rangers) and in your opinion, I don't bring anything good to Rangers? Yet, you are the one implying that I don't want 'your lot' around....? So I am an idiot that spoils it for everyone else am I? Funny way to talk about fellow fans Calscot... For the record, I have a great friend who supports the Rangers and he is a Scottish Nationalist and socialist. I have absolutely no issues with him supporting the Rangers, he is one of the best Rangers fans I know... I have another great friend who supports the Rangers and he is (whisper it) a catholic and again, I have absolutely no qualms about his love, passion and commitment to the Rangers. Cammy F

Hell, we even got fined by UEFA for a Craptic fan invading the pitch, drapped in a Palistine Flag and pope on a T-shirt who was screaming 'orange barstewards' to the Rangers fans as he was dragged away.... Cammy F

Care to expand on that statement Calscot? I have a healthy regard for the union flag, the OO (and Masons), WW11, The Boyne (and the reformation), the Royal Family and politics - does that somehow make me a sectarian bigot who shouldn't support Rangers? Cammy F

We are the most obvious? To who? Henrick Larsson, Mark Viduka, fuck the queen and davie copper (he's deid) - a lovely we ditty sung at EVERY OF game at Ibrox Cheer up (insert Rangers manager here) sad ORANGE BASTARD and shit football team - any time the tims beat us north men, south men one and all, soon there will be no protestants at all - sung at every OF game and every craptic away game, including Europe Are you watching ORANGE SCUM - again, sung at almost every tim away game including Europe That is just a selection of lovely wee ditties that are as obvious as us shouting effteepee.... I haven't even touched on the monkey noises you hear through-out Europe or the 'roman salutes' from the like of Lazio.... Aye, we are a lot more obvious right enough :yawn: The only reason we are 'more obvious' is that it is continually highlighted Cammy F

So the Spanish Police attacked us due to songs - how did they know that the songs we were singing were 'offensive'? What about the Rangers fans attacked by the police OUTSIDE the ground prior to kick off? Were the police justified in attacking them as the had reason to believe that some of them, at a later date may sing sectarian songs? There is no defence for the police attacks Cammy F

I am not defending the effteepee chants, but who, currently working for Osasuna knew what song to play and when exactly to turn the music down to hear us sing the 'offensive' words? Yes we have to learn to box clever (or get ourt house in order) but we need leadership, we need defending against over the top complaints, we need equality from UEFA - we are currently getting none of the above. Cammy F

Agree with almost everything you say - BUT us breaking the law isn't the issue - the main issue is why are we, Rangers, the only club currently being punished using this 'law' - we certainly aren't the only ones breaking it, so why are we getting and only us getting punished? The answer IMO, we are the only club in Europe who's OWN press have led a campaign that has left UEFA with no choice but to charge us for breaking the law. So the question we have to ask is why are the media so against us? Well, for this Bear it is obvious - some of us still can't see it and call the rest of us paranoid. Cammy F

But we can't get our own house in order until someone defines what is sectarian, political or offensive. That can not be defined, as it is now, by a set of fans, media whores and poltical wankers who are offended by ANYTHING and EVERYTHING we do, say or stand for. Cammy F

No one is denying that we broke 'the law', but the law and those that impose the law aren't being even-handed nor fair. They are reacting to complaints from a politically driven anti-Rangers agenda led by the media, politicians and the biggest bunch of bigots in this country, the Craptic support. That is the issue - not whether we broke 'the law' or not. Cammy F

But is THIS word, the only word that is considered 'offensive'? Why isn't HUN or Orange Bastard on the same agenda? I think it is more about who is actuyally being 'offended' rather than the word, or the origin of the word. In fact, the MOPES have gone into overdrive and are claiming the word TIM is now offensive. Yip, that is a word that they use to describe themselves. I wonder if the MOPES will rampage thro the Gallowgate smashing up all the TIM related pubs, clubs and shops with TIM in their names? This is more clear cut, it is indefensible No there are not and they should be 'given up', but they shouldn't be the only things highlighted and reacted on by a clearly one-sided and biased media and political base here in Scotland Cammy F

Exactly - can we, or UEFA say that Rangers fans are the only fans in Europe who sing 'offensive' songs in UEFA Cup or CL games? Are we to believe that NO OTHER CLUB IN EUROPE don't sing racist, sectarian or political songs? Are we the only fans breaking the rules? Sorry, but I for one ain't believing that. We aren't the only fans in GLASGOW who sing racist, sectarian or political songs FFS. Until the club grow a back-bone we are going to get fooked out of Europe and lose points in the SPL. The one-sided nature of this is laughable, well it would be if it wasn't so serious. Cammy F

Craig, Rangers FC sent information to UEFA regarding the miss-treatment of fans after various trips over the last 2-3 season and NOTHING has been done about it. No matter how many eye-witness reports we send to Rangers and UEFA NOTHING will be done about it. UEFA are too concerned with silly wee songs to be worried about the safety of travelling fans, especially when they are visiting a 'big nation' like Spain (or Italy). In Italy recently, we have had match fixing and deaths of police and fans. What has UEFA done in response to this? What sactions were dished out to Spain after their fans were guilty (and still are) or racist chanting? Are Spain likely to be thrown out of UEFA comps and / or the World Cup? What Rangers need to ask UEFA publically is if the lives of fans is more important than a 'silly wee song'. UEFA will, as always deem the singing more of an issue - to me that says more than I can about the reptiles that run this 'peoples game'. Cammy F

Gone but NEVER forgotten - RIP Davie http://www.rangers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HallOfFame/0,,5~529635,00.html Davie, Oh Davie Cooper, Oh Davie Cooper On The Wing. Cammy F

Playing Devils Advocate here, but is singing 'up to our knees in fe*** blood' any more offensive than the lines used by say Dundee (arabs blood), Killie (Ayr blood), Ayr (Killie blood), Hearts (Hibee blood) etc? The debate surrounding 'fe***' is clouded - I have no doubt that many 'well informed' Rangers fans would be able to correctly describe what a fe*** is, but and this is crucial in the whole argument, there is no denying that it is now a derogatroy reference for 'Craptic Fan'. But again, the examples above and the widely used offensive term HUN shows that this whole debate is very one-sided. Cammy F

But here is the issue, NO ONE has said what is 'sectarian' and given the MOPES, they are offended by our very existance - so how, in reality can we move forward when we have people saying that things as inoffensive as the bam-busters and the bouncy are 'sectarian'? In this shity little country, it is now deemed 'sectarian' and 'offensive' to fly the UNION FLAG - the MOPES have seen to that. They will not give up beeing offended until Rangers are out of business - its as simple as that. Given that, it is easy to easy why certain Rangers fans have taken a siege mentality. They are (rightly or wrongly) concerned that no matter what Rangers do, it won't be enough to silence the MOPES and their more than willing political and media lackies. That is why Rangers have to be pro-active and tell us what is and what isn't 'sectarian' - draw a line in the sand and stand up to the bigots who want us shut down. As for a self-imposed ban? This is the biggest OWN GOAL from Rangers and covers up the real problems from Osasuna (and other trips) where ordinary, working class, law-abiding Rangers fans lives were put at risk by European Clubs, slack UEFA Guidlines and an unept Rangers travel department. Cammy F

Slighty off topic, but was speaking with a guy I know who is friendly with a member of the Spanish press in Pamplona. When they were discussing the Scottish Medias reporting the Spanish guy couldn't believe the over-hype that it was given. He basically said that the Rangers fans were great, loud, but dencent and that the Spanish Police has a history of wading in to travelling supports. Anyway, he also said that there was a worse incident at the weekend when Osasuna played Athletico Bilboa (sp) - the Athletico fans attacked the Osasuna team bus and tried to over-turn it, smashing windows etc. Cammy F

Direct your Jambo friend to these artciles; http://heritage.scotsman.com/places.cfm?id=1628882006 http://www.laurahird.com/newreview/mccraesbattalion.html http://heritage.scotsman.com/people.cfm?id=933832006 http://www.geocities.com/athens/pantheon/3828/ Cammy F

As your Jambo friend how offensive the UF is to those brave Jambo's (players and fans) who fought and died for this country and who are remembered every year at Haymarket? Cammy F

Intersteing points mike... Regarding highlighting over clubs with problems, this is essential to show that both UEFA and the press aren't being even-handed. We would have to ensure that we didn't 'gloss over' our issue - we have to admit them but show evidence that we aren't the worst offenders. The examples I have given above were only confined to the UK. We could show examples of Lazio fans singing racist and right wing songs. I am sure that there are many other examples we could use. As for the press, again we have to fight sensationalist headlines as if we don't they will continue. But given the great responses on here, it shows what a huge job the club has, and I honestly don't think they are up for it. Thank The Lord for the RST. Cammy F