Rousseau

We need a complete new squad of better calibre players and a new manager with a sound tactical knowledge of the modern game and who, preferably, has numerous contacts in the game to recruit these better players.

Of course, I agree. However, I doubt that we can sign 24 new players better than we have during 1 summer. I think it'd be much more realistic to keep most of what we have and sign better calibre players to add to our squad. The 'coach' is absolutely key.

Sitting on the bench or in the stand earning tens of thousands p.w. ?

Can't see the board being too keen on that idea

Bench. We should get rid of the higher earners: a squad player shouldn't be on more than a starter. But then again, a squad player is not going to be on peanuts.

I genuinely feel these players would perform better with a good coach. We lack ideas going forward, but I think that's coaching. If someone could coach them into making better runs, or to move better etc. we'd see a better product on the park (of course that doesn't translate into finishing, which has been abysmal). We were caught on the counter several times last night, but IMO that's not a failure of the players, or their work-rate, but a failure of the tactics: having 1 sitting and and 2 CBs and the rest 'going for it', it was inevitable really. I couldn't fault their work-rate. I would criticise their creativity, and finishing; the former is the coaching, the latter the individual.

Seriously, you would keep most of the players we've got ?

Yes. As squad players.

We don't have the variety or size of squad we need. That's partly the reason why I've said I would keep most of the players we have, because I think they are OK--I certainly couldn't question their work-rate last night, just their decision making and finishing--, and with more acquisitions, more variety in the positions we would perform better with a decent coach (McCall is not the answer--too similar to McCoist--, but should be thanked for the work he has done: he can only work with what he's got).

Can you see him dropping to the Scottish second division?

No, I don't think that's realistic. But on a purely hypothetical level, he would get us to a certain level, bringing in players to do a job and I have been impressed with his work at the backroom level--there are a few stories about his excellent work to modernise Bolton with modern departments etc.--but then he wouldn't bring the 'good' football we would like. I think I'd prefer someone like McClaren: more of a coach, and a talented one at that, who can get us playing the right way, and he's certainly capable of rebuilding our backroom departments.

Both are unrealistic.

He's a good passer, but that is irrelevant if his potential teammates don't run off the ball. I'd like to see him in a Rangers jersey, but it'll only be successful if we can get a proper coach.

The talk before was of Dutch, Portugese etc sides competing with us but in truth they are so ahead of us now they would have no interest. Which leagues would want to play with us? It would be bottom end Europa League nations.

Initially you're right, but I think we can more than compete commercially (with the increased revenue streams).

I don't know who you are reacting to but we cannot just throw out 24 players and bring 24 new players in. I said I would keep him as a squad player for now but a RB and 2 centre-backs would be top of my list to bring in.

I agree completely. We are quite light in midfield if you want to get rid of Black and Shiels.

I place an awful lot of the blame for this season at the hands of our three managers. But the fact remains that these players under-achieved under 3 managers in the one season, so the majority of the blame lies with the players, of course it does. There are certain players that have emerged from this season with their reputations enhanced - MacLeod, Murdoch, McGregor, Hardie (what little game time he got!). That the others have played well below how we know they can comes down first and foremost to themselves underperforming when they cross the white line.

 

We can rebuild a squad of mostly freebies with the odd small transfer fee and be easily the second best squad in the top flight next season IF we scout and recruit properly. Our wage structure will allow that to happen. It is up to our board and new manager to do so in the right fashion.

Of course, I agree with what you say. I would add though that although these players have under-performed it does not imply that they are not good enough and that we need to cut them all loose: surely we all agree that they are better than what they've shown this year? I think we should keep what we have and then add some real quality, rather than go for a complete rebuild. (See post #52 and #53.)

Now I have made this template it is interesting to see other peoples views.

I'm pleased that you keep more players than you release, which is more realistic--the complete opposite of what others are implying on here. I agree with your choices.

I make our basic squad (assuming a basic 4-3-3?):

It's a very light squad--we'd ideally want 2 for every position. After going through them I'd keep Smith as a replacement for Wallace; Shiels for a replacement midfielder; and--god help me!--I'd keep Black as another replacement. I'd also keep Miller around. I understand your point about getting rid of the high earners; depends whether we can get somebody better for less money?

Potential acquisitions should be: 2nd GK; RB; CB (2); LB; CM (2 or 3); ST (2); maybe another winger, but I think those positions could be taken with youngsters--fast and energetic etc.--like Gallagher, McKay, Walsh etc.

You are talking about over spending,spending too much,I'm not. We need better quality to compete,better quality requires spending,are you saying we should not buy any players?.

Personally I don't believe in that statement as it gives you an excuse for failure and lowering you're expectations now. No we should not go splattering millions everywhere but the far future begins today. What time line is this long term gain? How can we measure where we are in this long term gain if we are still failing? We need to do both. We need to make improvements that allows us to challenge for Europe next season. We also have to put a long term plan in place bringing scouting and youth coaching up to a level that could possibly make us self sufficient but we must not forget that there are very few clubs playing in the top of Europe that relies totally on there own youth scheme.

The long term gain thing is like a player waiting for the ball to come to him instead of moving towards the ball to get it in my eyes a lot of the time it never reaches you.

Fair enough. I'm certainly not saying we shouldn't sign anyone--I don't see how anyone could defend that position! I just think it's unrealistic to expect a complete 'clear-out'. I don't think we have the money. Moreover, I don't think it's necessary. I think we have a base squad that is average, or decent at best, which we can build on by acquiring better players. I honestly think the manager is key: get a decent coach and we see a completely different team (from the players we have).

I don't necessarily agree that the highest paid squad wins the league. The best team wins the league, but that doesn't necessarily require huge expenditure. Barcelona developed an exceptional team barely spending a penny. I agree with the 'stepping stone' type situation where you have to upgrade your team to progress, but I think that system in perpetuity is unsustainable. We should improve the side by spending, but we should also be putting more emphasis on Scouting, Youth Development and coaching the players we have. We got into this situation because we wanted to outspend Celtic, which was pure hubris; and we have fallen for it. It's time to put more emphasis on the long-term aspects of squad development.

Chap at third slip looks useful.

Ha! I'm more worried about the Wicket-keeper!

Aye you do!,the best team has the best players!

We never bought the best players,obviously!

If we get promoted we don't have time for a long term view,well we do slightly have to plan long term but at the same time the Rangers fans demand at least to compete,the long term plan ship sailed a few years ago!.

Did C****c win the title because they were the best team, with best players,who had to pay the highest wage?

I think if we do it your way, we'll be in the same situation in a few years time. Short-term pain for long-term gain is what I'm prepared for; we need to build long-term.

We need a whole new team to compete with celtc for the league let alone win it.

 

who exactly are people talking about staying and playing anything other than a bit part?

That's exactly what I said: they are decent squad players; I'm not suggesting they are starters! I just don't expect this rebuild to happen, or at least not in the manner we would all like. We have a basic squad, it needs improving, but that does not imply that we should be releasing everyone. IMO.

Our squad absolutely needs gutted. Which players do you think have a future to play? Which players are good enough to be challenging Celtic and leading us back into Europe?

 

And of course we should have romped the Scottish second division. No doubt about that at all. We outspend the rest of the top 4 put together and frankly it's a joke we didn't run away with the league.

I don't think it does. The majority can play a role--I'm not suggesting they can compete with Celtic at all. I think there is a half-decent base there, which with some additions can challenge for top 6 or second. The squad needs improved. I just think, in our current situation, a complete rebuild is unrealistic. I would certainly want a Abramovich-style rebuild but I doubt it'll happen. We must build on what we have.

Perhaps we should have, but it's not as easy as that. Man Utd had the biggest wage bill, does that mean they should have romped the Premier League. However, whereas many have been blaming the players--and to an extent they should be blamed because they haven't performed well enough--I was suggesting the main problem was the management.

RangersHistory ‏@RangersFACTS 48s48 seconds ago

Rangers new manager Scot Symon relaxing at home with his family & Skipper the dog!

Ha, Cricket! The gentleman's game.

Money in football buys you a certain standard of player. We have a standard of player that is much better than any of our league rivals. The players, and managers, have pretty much entirely underperformed with a few notable exceptions. On that basis I want them removed from our squad.

I agree with the two premises: (1) we have a better standard of player; and (2) we have under-performed. However, I disagree with your conclusion. It does not necessarily follow that they are inherently not good enough--form is temporary, class is permanent etc. I believe a better manager can get better things from them. Secondly, money may indeed buy us a better calibre of player, but it doesn't then follow that they should romp to the title. I think we disagree on the basis of our failure. You imply that it's the players fault entirely, whereas I believe the fault lies with the management. Stories abound in football of poor sides being miraculously transformed into decent sides with a change of manager.

It is entirely feasible to totally revamp the squad. Advocaat was left 3 first team players from Smith in 1998, McCoist was left with around 6 first team players in 2012. It happens. On both occasions we won the league comfortably the following season (although there the comparisons between 1999 & 2013 end!!). It can be done with the right infrastructure and management. These players have had their chance and blown it. Some players have had more than one chance. They do not deserve another on our payroll.

I'm not disputing that, but I am stating that it can't be done without some serious expenditure (£35 Million in 1998-99). That sort of expenditure is wholly unrealistic in our current situation. The rebuilds you reference were forced because of retirements and contract cancellations. At this juncture we have a 'basic' squad and I think it would be naive, foolish and presumptuous to suggest we should be gutting the squad. I'm not denying it needs improving, simply added to, or refined. (And, actually on both occasions we won the league because there was no challenge--John Barnes and East Stirling!) Again, your opinion that the players have had their chance is based on our fundamental disagreement which I outlined above (on the basis of our failure).

My expectations are based entirely on the relevant squads of players. Our squad is full of top level experienced players with a smattering of full internationalists, and we will be playing a Motherwell side who have abjectly failed to overcome two of their 10 rivals (I exclude celtic) to avoid the play off spot. In league play-offs I would always favour the side from the lower league as they have been used to winning whereas the team from the higher league have been losing most weeks. Form is the overriding factor and we should easily beat this Motherwell side with some to spare. That does not give our players the right to brag about it, as they have failed to win a title they should have had won in March, if they had applied themselves properly and been coached and managed properly. The fact you would keep Jig alone is worthy of mockery (surely an error in your post!!?) and I dont see that Hutton has been worse than Black for example. Boyd was a hero of mine first time around but anyone can see he has failed this season and admits himself he wont be around next season as that is the price of failure. I wish others were as honest.

Yes, I agree we should be beating Motherwell; mainly because, as you said, we have the momentum, but it is not a certainty. I was suggesting your expectations in general are out of date, with regards to our league performance, not the Motherwell play-off game. Even with marginally better players with bigger wages, it doesn't then follow that we should be romping away with the league. Again, I think it's the management that should take the majority of the blame.

Oh, yes absolutely! Keeping Jig was an error!!

Promotion is not the slightest bit praiseworthy when our budget is 10 times that of our nearest opponents, and our players earn huge sums in comparison to their rivals. Promotion is the very minimum requirement, and the fact we finished third in a one team league and had to play three rounds of play-offs to get it is absolutely embarrassing to me as a Rangers fan. Perhaps we have different ambitions for our club?

Money doesn't guarantee you success. Like db said: does that not then belittle the titles we won previously? We have the same ambition, just perhaps differ in our appreciation of our current predicament. I think it's a bit unrealistic and arrogant to assume we should be cruising to the title--no matter how much I may wish it!

There is no redemption for a squad of mostly under-performing charlatans (and the managers who picked them) by sneaking past QotS, Hibs and Motherwell, all teams that bear no comparison to us. HIbs should be a big club but are on their arse just now, a little like us but without the fan base.

Again, I feel you are a wee bit unrealistic in your expectations. They have most certainly under-performed, but I still feel they deserve credit for getting promotion--if in fact we do get promotion! They are not the class of player we had previously. They are average SPL players at best, yet you expect the same level as before.

It is only in the last couple of games that Miller has finally contributed with an important goal or two, WTF was he up to for nine months previously? A wage thief if ever I seen one.

I agree. But surely he deserves credit for it his good performances, just like he deserves criticism for the bad?

The time for big players to step up and play was midway through the season when they got the first manager sacked, not when they just about got their third manager sacked. There is no redemption for the failures this season, they have proven they are not up to the task at a lower level, they most certianly are not up to it going forward. I would keep all the under 21's who have came in and out the team as they have a chance to improve, and I would keep Bell (as second choice), McGregor (POTY), Wallace (captain), Shiels, Templeton (there is talent there somewhere), Clark and get rid of the rest, especially McCulloch, Zaliukas, Foster, Smith, Simonsen, Robinson, Black, Law, Mohsni, Daly, Boyd, Miller, Hutton, and no doubt a few others I have (thankfully) forgotten about. All of this list have failed, some more than others granted, and some have not shown enough desire, fight, talent to wear the shirt.

I agree. Our opinions of individual players are subjective, so it's difficult to be objective. I would actually keep most of them, except Daly, Simonsen and Hutton. Now, that doesn't mean I want them to be in the starting 11 next year, because I don't, but I believe it's unrealistic to assume we can completely replace them all. They'd be decent squad players. There could be a hint of a decent foundation there, if we can just improve the team with some new/better players. I think the main issue has been poor management; sort of the management and I think you'd see a completely different set of players. Most have the potential to be better with a better manager, and a smattering of new/better players to improve the squad.

No matter what transpires over the next two games, and I expect to get through with something to spare, these play-off backs to the wall performances against utter dross cannot, and will not, be allowed to paper over what has been an absolutely awful season of football from our club.

Is that not paradoxical that you see them as abject failures, not worthy to wear the jersey and with no redeeming quality, but you still expect them to walk through the play-off against teams that have battered us in the past? It has been an awful season, but I think your expectations are 5 years out of date.

Charlie Nicholas not so much!

That's not as bad as Merson with his pronunciations! 'Cinnamon' Jackson!

All 3 managers have continued to pick players like Miller and Jig who have completely failed us. I don't know what they see of these guys in training, but we as fans can only see the match day performances and for those 2 in particular, with guys like Black, Law, Boyd, Mohsni, in the same boat (some have played less, granted) it is quite remarkable that three managers have seen it differently from the vast majority of the paying punters.

 

This has been the main reason we could not surpass an average Hearts side, and even managed to acquire less points than a dreadful Hibs side, while along the way pick up embarrassing defeats to the likes of QOTS, Alloa, Raith etc.

 

One or two honourable performances from Miller, Foster etc when the damage has been long done won't paper over the chasm of their failures over the season.

 

A total clearout of all these failures is required by our new manager, who I hope is appointed within a week of our final game next Sunday, as there is a helluva lot of work to do before it starts again at the end of July.

I think the management has a lot to answer for. These players obviously have some redeeming qualities, otherwise they wouldn't play. And I believe that; these guys have some good attributes, and many bad. I think there has been an upturn in performance since McCall took charge, which highlights the difference a 'better' manager makes. I'd keep many for a potential Premiership season, albeit not as starters but squad players. A total clearout is unrealistic IMO. We have OK players that can do a job. I think with some intelligent acquisitions etc., we can make it work. I dislike this 'black-and-white' attitude: they're either legends or abject failures. They've let us down a lot, and they should be criticised, but they should also be praised when they do us proud; surely promotion is praiseworthy?

They're only embarrassing defeats relatively speaking. We don't have a squad of internationals like 5 years ago. We have a squad of average SPL players, who have failed to hit their peaks on numerous occasions this year. We expect better, but I think your judgment is quite harsh considering our situation. Who would have thought we'd be in with a chance of getting promoted--by beating the play-off sides--never mind actually getting a play-off spot, which did look shaky for a spell. This season has undoubtedly been a failure, but if we get up surely there is a hint of redemption there?

I agree the damage has been done, but we still have to do it when it matters. Surely the players deserve a little credit if we get promotion? My point was that Miller has popped up with important goals at the end of the season, when it really mattered. I've criticised him as much as the next fan, but I recognise his influence over the last month or so. Of course he should have stepped up at the start of the season, but I'm ready to praise that he has stepped up at all.

Big players step up? If Miller and co had stepped up this season we wouldn't have finished in third place. Miller finished the season with 7 goals. Pathetic.

I agree--and I've been more critical of Miller than most! My point was that his performances since McCall took charge have been average, but he has come up with very important goals during the big games against Hearts (twice) and Hibs (twice). It does not imply for a minute that I want him as our main striker; although I would keep him around.

Offt...that's a proper one as well!

I'm not saying he has had a successful season, I'm saying he has stepped up with some big goals when it mattered. I have been one of the most critical of Miller during the season, but I have been quietly impressed with his performances in big games--Hearts, Hibs, etc.

We need Kenny Miller and every single other player to step up on Thursday night at Ibrox and then again at Firpark on Sunday.

Like I've said above: he may be past his best, but he has stepped up in the big games with some big goals.

You gotta love the Gillette Soccer Saturday guys. Great banter.