Rousseau

As I said above, being forced to play for the European stage when your team is about one week back in training is an utter shambles. If you square up against teams from leagues a that play summer football it sure puts you at a disadvantage (even though that does not seem the case here). Likewise, we should keep in mind that football has moved on in other countries too, so the attribute "Scottish" is much like the name Rangers nothing that guarantees you success against supposedly "lesser teams" from "lesser nations". In this case, Armenia might be ranked as a "lesser light" in the game, but it likewise breeds people like Henrikh Mkhitaryan, who plays for Borussia Dortmund. When was the last time a Scot played for a bigger German team? Hence, a bit of up-to-date perspective is required.

 

That aside, we all know what sort of state the Scottish game is in and of what standard St. Johnstone can be ranked in there. It will hardly be a surprise that they fail in such contests, nor does it paint the Scottish league any worse than it actually is. For we all know it is bad and that all the decent Scottish players either play for the OF or down in England.

Perhaps the Armenian league is a better league than we think, and the Scottish league is lesser than we think. I think our estimation of the SPFL is based on the performance on the Old Firm. The Old Firm can/should be getting to the CL Group Stages, our domestic rivals can give us a game every once and a while, therefore 'Scottish' sides are not much worse. The truth is the Old Firm are on another level. The rest of the SPFL are on a level with Armenia.

The irony is both are blaming the other for their failures. The Old Firm are being held back, the rest are being squeezed out of prize money.

Like you said, we all know the state of the game in Scotland, so it shouldn't come as a surprise, but it's still a slap in the face. We like to believe we're better because what's the point in 'analysing', following and getting so wrapped up in the drama when we're so poor? It becomes an existential question.

These European qualifiers are always a sharp dose of reality. Scottish sides are poor. It's actually embarrassing how poor we are. And I don't know how long we can continue in this way.

We have always been a selling club, but our 'success' over the years has been average to poor. I can only remember Boumsong, Hutton and Cuellar that have genuinely been a success in this regard. We must do better. However, I think we have the right manager and youth coach (What's Mulhollands title and name!?) to improve our record in acquiring young hungry players and develop our own young players that we can sell on.

However, I think the way we have done it over the years has been dependent on luck; picking a good player on a free that has been missed by others -- Boumsong and Cuellar were not developed by us. It is hardly a science. We must learn to 'develop' young players, whether that be our own or others from abroad. Ajax have the best model. They target young players, but they develop them into better players; and more importantly they develop them into players that can play roles in the first team.

We must omit the last 5 years in any comparison as we have been making short-term decisions over that period, but generally we've been ineffective and dependent on luck. We must learn to actually 'develop' players instead of picking good players already. Once we learn to do this we will achieve greater success in our 'selling'.

Young players develop. Just because they are not good enough just now doesn't mean they won't be eventually (of course it also doesn't mean they are/will be good enough either). All the great sides have young players step up into the first team without being anywhere near the finished product. I believe any player can play a role for the team, without being the finished product. Pedro was a young player that came through the Barca youth set-up and was never the best player in that generation, but he had raw ability (he was and is not the most skillful or technically gifted player IMO, but he has certain attributes that allowed him to contribute) and was able to play a role that suit the team. This is my idea of a 'team'; a group of players that are able to play together, and get the best out of each other. I dislike this concept of the team as a product of individuals that 'customers' come to watch -- "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

A loan signing is not a player on which to build your team; it's too short-termist. However, as a stop-gap, or as a way of achieving an objective, I don't have a problem. Our goal is to reach the Premiership next year, and if to do that we have to sign a player or two on loan then so be it. The best situation would be for us to acquire a player on loan -- of better quality than we have -- with the option of a permanent deal afterwards. I'm not sure how realistic that is however? Of course, there is also the possibility that seeing a better player in training and on the pitch every week can inspire the other players in the team.

I'll do the Alloa game.

No, they would have been sold for profit.

The better players would've been sold, but at a good profit, like Hutton, but the 'lesser' players could've still been contributing.

Am I right in thinking that there were a few players that came through at the same time as McCormack and Adam? Was Hutton and Shinnie etc. part of that 'group'? If so, it would appear we were just poor at spotting a talent because all went on to play at a 'decent' level.

I always believe that any player can play a role. It doesn't have to be a starring, creative role, but simply a squad role etc, no matter what their ability. There has to be a mix of star players and the workers. When I look back at the players that left over the years, I wonder if we had a better coach/manager if any would still be in the squad, playing at a decent level. McCormack or Adam could've done a job when required.

I'm not going to criticise the man: He has been a good servant over the years, no matter what anyone says. It's time for a clean break though.

I think SBS is right in stating the calibre of player in the Premiership is the equivelent of League 2/National League in England. That calibre of player is adequate to challenge for top 3 in the Premiership. Just look at Inverness: their squad is almost entirely made up of League 2 players and they've apparently been a 'revelation'. It would be logical therefore to suggest that acquiring players from the Championship would be good enough to challenge C*****. We have been or are looking at signing players from that level (Kiernan, Eusace, Foderingham, Dallas, Wabarra etc.), so I think it's entirely possible that we are "signing players that can challenge for the top title."

I also think the management team is being overlooked. I believe a decent manager can get a group of average players playing exciting, winning football; especially in Scotland. Our current squad under-performed spectacularly, but I think it's fair to say that they are better than what they've shown. Again, a decent manager will get them playing more to their full potential. As for struggling to win the Championship, I can't see it. We were piss poor last year and still managed to just miss out on second. Hearts were far the best side, and with them gone I can see our current side challenging Hibs, not comfortably, but competitively.

It's funny, I've taken the same 'facts' as trublusince1982 and come to a completely different conclusion. I think Warburton will get us promoted and get us playing a certain way to finish second in the Premiership. I think the signings thus far and the calibre of rumoured targets suggest this is possible. I think exciting football will come regardless of any major change -- I think it's solely based on the Manager's philosophy.

I've always liked him as a player since he broke into the 1st team. It's a shame Ally couldn't nurture his talent better and have him playing for us instead of sending him out on loan.

I think it goes deeper than that. The Scottish (even British) football culture overlooks players like McKay because of their diminutive stature, preferring more physical attributes. Young Jack Harper being overlooked for the Scottish U-19s (?) because he is 'too small' despite playing, and starring, for Real Madrid Youths epitomises the situation.

I've always liked him as a player since he broke into the 1st team. It's a shame Ally couldn't nurture his talent better and have him playing for us instead of sending him out on loan.

I think it goes deeper than that. The Scottish (even British) football culture overlooks players like McKay because of their diminutive stature, preferring more physical attributes. Young Jack Harper being overlooked for the Scottish U-19s (?) because he is 'too small' despite playing, and starring, for Real Madrid Youths epitomises the situation.

Expected a better level of signing and to be further along than we currently are. Had hoped to see the signings we expect to start in the first 11 in place in time for a full pre season(gk RB, DM RM ST). Don't expect the squad to be the finished article but had hoped we would have a team in place good enough to win the championship with a bit of ease.

I think it's very unusual to have an entire squad replaced in time for a full pre-season. I will admit to expecting a few more. But I think we've done good business. Like I said, I'm not overwhelmed, but I'm certainly not disappointed. Plenty of time left. And, we've got a few guys close to signing and another couple training with us (IIRC?), so I suppose we do technically have a few more in for a 'full pre-season'. I think we've improved the squad. We do need more numbers though.

Had also hoped to see us spend a bit of money, wasn't expecting a lot just not to be relying once again on a team of freebies .

I agree. I'm not concerned though -- I think we've done good business so far. I would expect to see a bit a money spent over the next couple of weeks.

Had also hoped we would mainly stay away from the English market, don't think you get as big a bang for your buck.

That is certainly true, but we've hardly spent anything so I don't think that matters. What does matter is that the standard of player in the lower leagues in England are better than the Scottish Premiership -- IMO. Your statement surprised me because I thought we were all looking for transfers from England, instead of Scottish transfers. I suppose you are right though.

GK- Bell ,Foderingham

 

DEF- Zaliukas, Mcgregor, Wallace, Wilson, Keirnan

 

MID- Law, Crawford, Murdoch, Templeton, Aird, Shiels, Walsh, Gallagher

 

ST- Miller, Clark

 

Youths likely to step up- Gasparotto, Mckay, Hardie, Stoney

 

Expected signings- Wabara, Eustace

 

Needed-(not inc back up positions just first team starters needed) Right back(Wabara) Right mid Def mid(Eustace) Strikerx2 (miller doubtful he has another season in him)

 

Players that past performances deem unlikely to hold down first 11 spots(if not all of them!) - Aird, Clark, Miller, Templeton ,Crawford

 

With 20 days to go until we start our competitive campaign anyone else concerned with our recruitment so far?

 

For me the squad even with the inclusion of the likely signings of Eustace and Wabara is not remotely near good enough to either play in front of 45.000-50,000 or win the league with any sort of comfort. The next signings will need to be of a calibre that can carry the rest.

 

How many loan players do you think we will utilise if we sign say 7/8?

What were you expecting? I'm not overwhelmed but I'm not disappointed either. It's a pragmatic approach which is needed at this stage. There's still a long time to go. I remember we were in a much worse situation when we were preparing for out first season in the Third Division.

Moreover, it's a team game, so it really doesn't matter that we haven't signed any top-class individuals as long as the ones we have signed work and play well as a team.

Is he really that crap? According to Wikipedia he's played over 85 games despite being only 20 years of age. That's quite impressive. Granted it says little about his ability/quality. If I remember correctly he's an attacking midfielder, which Warburton likes. If he's got good raw attributes, then I'd take a punt; he's only 20.

I think Warburton prefers a pacey striker who can run in behind, so a big strong presence is not necessary. I don't mind a big strong presence as long as they can play one-twos and other more intricate things, which I also think Warburton likes -- the midfielders are always running at the defenders so one would think a link-up striker would be beneficial.

It's not the most exciting but I can see Miller filling that role. Clark could also, if he could only learn to control the bloody ball instead of letting it bonce off him 10 yards! I wish someone would hit hard passes close to him and let him practice controlling it.

I knew Templeton was 'jinky' when he ran, but I never noticed how he runs almost leaning back. In the photos McKay is leaning into the run, whereas Temps is leaning away. I suppose it helps him deceive a defender into thinking he's not about to accelerate away?

There's a player in there, but I think he needs to simplify his game -- Hug the touchline, stand up the defender, jink outside to cross along the six-yard line or cut it back, or jink inside for a shot. I think he over complicates things.

I'm pleased with this signing: promising young player, and crucially, he looks imposing!

Foderingham looks like a good addition; young, highly thought of. He seems to have a temper, as I read about him kicking a water bottle after Di Canio subbed him. Not a bad thing from a 'keeper I think.

Even with Eustace, which is still not done, our midfield and whole forward line (ST, RW, AM, LW) is still lacking. Are we being linked with any attacking/forward players? I can only think of Halliday and May...?

The Book Review alluded to in the OP was a good read; out of date in many respects, but quite balanced. Other journalists clearly see his anti-Rangers agenda, and indeed his whole life shouts anti-Rangers; it's quite unbelievable, it's like a parody: "There is little too that is ordinary about the book’s author, Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, a Glaswegian of Irish descent who has chosen to live in Donegal for the best part of the last 20 years and who, along the way, elected to use the Irish Gaelic version of his surname." His whole life has been guided by a certain point-of-view that almost makes his animosity towards Rangers inevitable.

To be fair, I don't care. There are many that hold that opposite views, and they're equally contemptible and sad. Ultimately, he is a blogger. His words pass the eyes of too few people for him to be of any consequence. Let him jump on his soapbox all he wants: No one is listening. In fact, by challenging him we are giving him a bigger platform. I appreciate his words are offensive and insulting, but do they have any influence?

http://www.scottishreviewofbooks.org/index.php/back-issues/volume-8-2012/volume-eight-issue-four/522-what-s-the-score-kevin-mckenna

I want this bloody Cup. It's meaningless, more of a diddy Cup than the League Cup, but I want it...

I agree Wallace has been poor, and he isn't at the level we would want, but I think he deserves to stay, if just for his dedication and application. I think he's doing his coaching badges, or something suchlike, so I think he's got a good brain; perhaps W&W can get more out of him. To be fair, I'm thinking similarly with all of the players: poor last year, but I'm confident a better coach can get more out of them; they're surely better than they've shown?

I hope Warburton realises how poor a lot of these players are. The likes of Bell, Zaliukas, Crawford, Law, Shiels, Templeton, Clark, Miller etc are nowhere near good enough.

I agree, but I think they're better than what they've shown. Perhaps a new manager can transform them. Too optimistic?

Think Davy Moyes will see that as a good pre season work out

and lots on interest playing us and them

Do you think he'd let us take a few of his players? I wouldn't mind taking a few of his players on loan...

Just a pity his football nowhere near the same standard

I actually think he's not bad: good movement, decent touch and can pass, but my issue is that he's still quite weak. If he could bulk up he'd be a decent player.

You beat me to it! I was thinking it was time to have a little fun speculating on a potential starting XI.

I think we all agree it'll be 4-2-3-1:

Our whole forward line needs strengthening. I don't expect those I've put in to be starters; decent squad players, but not starters. We also desperately need a striker, and a Number 10.

Where does Holt play? Halliday would be an OK acquisition.