Rousseau

I think the Progres-AEL game shows that Progres were perhaps better defensively than we gave them credit for. However, we should not be conceding two goals against them, as they had very little quality going forward. We missed glaring opportunities in that second leg too.

Quite so, shipping out those who are surplus to requirements is important, albeit a short term job.

 

Whilst we're on that subject, the Hamburg Loyal guys I met in Luxembourg were adamant that RB Leipzig DID offer £5 million or perhaps €5 million for Barry McKay in January. It was obvious from the fact that he only extended his contract by one year the previous year that he wasn't going to sign again without a significant pay rise and by all accounts there was a big gap between his wage demands and what Rangers were offering, so why on earth did we hold on then sell him for £500k?

I suspect they were misinformed.

Was it not revealed that we actually got more than 500k?

Can I ask, and I will give you 2 in Jock Wallace and Dino Zoff, how many goalkeepers have made good managers?

"Why are goalkeepers so rarely effective managers? Which ex-keeper has the best management record ever?" muses Mike Shearing.

 

It's partly a numbers game. With ten outfield players to every keeper, there's a far smaller pool of potential candidates. It's also worth bearing in mind that keepers tend to have longer playing careers. In England alone, John Burridge, Steve Ogrizovic, Neville Southall and Dave Beasant have all made top-flight appearances after the age of 40.

 

The most successful keeper-manager ever is surely the late Raymond Goethals. Born in Brussels in 1921, Goethals enjoyed a modest playing career between the sticks for minor Belgian clubs Daring and Racing de Bruxelles. However, as Xavier Lizin points out, there is nothing modest about his coaching CV. In 1993, Goethals guided Marseilles to victory in the Champions League final against a Milan side that included Marco van Basten, Franco Baresi and Frank Rijkaard.

 

It was the crowning moment of Goethal's managerial career. As coach of Belgium, he had led his country to the 1970 World Cup n Mexico, the first time they had qualified for 16 years, and also to a third-place finish in the 1972 European Championships. He reached two consecutive European Cup Winners' Cup finals with Anderlecht, winning the trophy in 1978, and also tasted domestic league and cup success with Standard Liege. His career as Marseilles manager, meanwhile, included three successive league titles and, two years before the historic win over Milan, a European Cup final defeat to Red Star Belgrade.

 

A respectful nod also goes to former United States manager Bruce Arena. While Arena's greatest claim to fame as a player is a solitary appearance in the US goal for a 2-0 loss to Israel in 1973, his accomplishments as a coach are considerable. His DC United side not only won the first two MLS championships and the 1998 CONCACAF Champions Cup but beat Brazilian side Vasco da Gama over two legs to win the Interamerican Cup. In 2002 Arena also led America to the last eight of the World Cup while, in April 2006, the US achieved a best-ever Fifa world ranking of fourth.

 

Dino Zoff is worth a mention too. After captaining Italy to the 1982 World Cup, aged 40, Zoff turned to management, leading Juventus to the Uefa Cup and taking Italy to within a whisker of victory at Euro 2000, only for France to overturn a 1-0 deficit with seconds remaining, a result that prompted his resignation a few days later. Still, not bad for a goalie.

Haven't we been over this? There are a few good managers that were 'keepers, excluding the few that you mention: Lopetagui, Blackwell, Adkins, Beasant, Preud'homme, Slutsy, Nuno Santo, and Caixinha (maybe too early to say if he will be good...). I'm amused that you keep bringing up this argument to imply/prove that Caixinha is/will be a poor manager. Of course there are going to be fewer former goalkeepers as managers because, as you quoted from the Guardian, there is a smaller pool of candidates.

What about those managers that didn't play football at all? Andre Villas-Boas, Sacchi, Carlos Alberto Parreira, Avram Grant, Brian Kerr, and our very own Bill Struth. Even Wenger and Mourinho had very little success as players, if you can even call it a career. A player's playing career, and less so his position, has very little bearing on whether they will be a good manager or not.

Rooney to Everton a done deal on a 2 year contract.

 

Chelsea sign 34m defender Rudiger from Roma. Not sure if he would have been first choice, pretty sure any of the Juventus back 3 would have been wanted first.

I doubt the Juventus guys are available. And then it'd only be Chiellini or Bonucci, as Barzagli is 36; the former is a die-hard Juve man and the latter would cost a fortune - Chelsea probably have it, though. Rudiger is a good young player, with experience of playing in Italy in a back three.

I've got the feeling Pena will play as one of two DMs. He's a box-to-box player that likes to arrive late, rather than an orthodox attacking midfielder. I can see Dorrans being the No.10, although that doesn't leave room for Kranjcar!!

I've not been impressed with Wallace, so I'd prefer Beerman -- or at least given a shot, but I doubt it.

Miller has been piss poor in that inside forward role, but he might be better with a more attacking player (Pena) behind him, with more support and options; Dorrans is more mobile than Kranjcar too.

We've not got many natural wingers, but we do have options in Windass, Holt, Dodoo and Waghorn in an inside forward role. Not ideal, but they can play there -- if indeed it is an inside forward role.

A 4-2-2-2 (or even a 4-4-2 diamond) could be interesting too, with Kranjcar and Dorrans as double No.10s and our FBs providing the width:

MOH's going to rip us apart if he signs for another SPFL club!

The irony is he'd probably suit PC's inside forward role. I really would like to see him play more.

Not sure what you mean.

 

However - to take Craig using Sir Alex as a knee jerk opinion on another thread - I just read the premier league starts on a Friday for the first time this season, I thought thats not right because I recall watching the first game of the season years ago on a Friday night - however that turned out to be the second game of the season Chelsea 2-2 Man Utd.

 

So the point is Sir Alex fielded a 4-5-1 that night.

 

Carroll

 

P Neville Blanc Shea Silvestre

 

Beckham Keane Butt Giggs

 

Scholes

 

Van Nistelrooy

 

Ok we dont have that level of quality. But does someone want to explain to me whats wrong with this system and why we have to fumble about? Put players in natural positions - end of.

That's more a 4-4-1-1 than a 4-5-1, but it's essentially a 4-2-3-1, which is what we play: two sitting DMs, with a No.10 and two wingers.

However, as Gaffer said, our pre-occupation with formations is irrelevant: it's how they execute it that counts, and we've not been doing it.

I think that was the thread I was mentioning. Lewis MacLeod is another yet injuries have hampered him.

 

I just googled John Fleck to see where he was, didnt realise he was with Sheff Utd just got promoted to the championship. 10 apps last season in league one.

I think that's wrong about Fleck: I thought he was doing well at Utd, captaining on occasion (I had thought he was captain, but I can't find anything) and winning player of the year?

I think he's doing well, but your point does stand that these guys generally fade away after leaving.

To be fair, I think we missed Holt last night. We certainly missed his industry. Jack & Rossiter didn't work out.

I was thinking that when I wrote it. I like the double pivot, but I think one needs license to push forward and make late runs; Holt can do that, but Jack and Rossiter are not that type of player. In future it could be Dorrans or Pena - who I think both play deeper, but are attacking players?

I have yet to see any evidence of an upgrade. In fact Dalcio for McKay could be a downgrade.

Whether he gets the sack or not upgrade can not be used at this time.

That comparison is certainly a downgrade, but I think Jack, Alves, Cardoso, Candeias, Pena (Dorrans?), and Herera are better than Halliday, Kiernan, MOH, Holt and Garner/Waghorn. Whether that means we'll achieve what needs to be achieved, I don't know. I merely stated that I believe the players we've signed are an upgrade.

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#Wibble

the home game we certainly didn't , I actually left feeling really really down watching us , there is no purpose to our play , players take up positions that block others from moving into space , Dalcio wandered from side to side not really doing anything , KM drops deep into a position he simply cant play , I don't see any style or system I really dont

I think those wide forwards are supposed to play inside, in the half-space, with Full-backs providing the width. It's a good idea -- many sides do it -- but I agree Miller is not the answer.

There is a system, it's just not bloody working!

It's middle to front where we're struggling; we're not clicking. For all his passing ability, I don't think Kranjcar is mobile enough to be our No.10, so I'd like to see him deeper - at least in games where we'll dominate, and dropped for those we'll not.

To be honest, I don't think our performance last night will have a big bearing on how we'll do in the league; it's a completely different situation. It's set PC back, though, and he now doesn't have the leeway. A couple of poor results at the start of the season and I will lose patience.

I refuse to call them a pub side because that's disrespectful, but they are as close as you can get in professional football. Even on a poor day, we should be beating that team.

what is that based on?

Just my own observations of how we play, and his training methodology. Some good ideas with good potential, but we've not seen it enough; it's only been in 5 minute spells here and there. Not good enough.

Rousseau , im not too sure hes an upgrade on anyone , we are playing almost identically to MW , we dont get the ball into the box quickly or often enough and we have no one to run past the forwards from midfield .

 

This is potentially going to be a long long season

Not a huge upgrade I'll admit, but I still think he's an upgrade; and the squad itself I think is better, but we'll need to wait and see if it's good enough -- it's certainly not started well.

I don't think we're playing anywhere near how MW had us playing. I think we are getting the ball into the box more, but, for me, the quality is not there; I did expect better quality in the cross, as that's how PC wants to play, but I've not seen it.

I still think he's a good coach, with good ideas that can work for us, but he really needs to get results now.

We'll need to line up a few friendlies.

No, he shouldn't be sacked.

He's an upgrade on MW, and has upgraded the side. Whether that's enough to achieve what we want? I'm less sure than what I was.

Of course we're always looking to win the league, but I really don't think that's an appropriate target this season. I want 2nd. Comfortably. I still think we've got the manger and team to do that.

Same old problem: we can't create chances, and then when we do we can't take them; and then we concede stupid, sloppy goals. I thought we were quite comfortable; we weren't in any danger, despite our lethargic performance. We even hit the bar three times.

There were moments in both games where we played some nice stuff, but it's nowhere near consistent enough. I believe that's how the manager wants us to play, but he's not getting them to do it consistently. Everyone has to take the blame for this result. They had never scored more than one goal in a European game. Embarrassing result. Even playing poorly, we should be beating this team.

Foderingham 5

Tavernier 4

Bates 4

Cardoso 4

Wallace 4

Jack 5

Rossiter 5

Kranjcar 5

Candeias 4

Miller 5

Morelos 5

Subs :

Dalcio 4

Windass 4

Herrera 5

and full back?

Ideally, yes. However, I think we'll be stronger defensively, overall, having signed improvements at CB. I'd prefer to see us spend the money we have left on the attacking third.

Slightly off topic but Bill Shankly ordered 'This is Anfield' to be emblazoned above the tunnel. We should do the same with 'We Are the People.' It's psychological - a motivator.

Was he not also the one who changed the Liverpool kit to all red, for the impact it would have on the opposition?

Never underestimate the psychological aspect.

I never thought I'd say this, but I don't think we need more defenders. I'm more than content with Wilson, Bates and Wilson the younger; with Cardoso and Alves, I think we're fine. We need more attacking players; strikers, wingers and attacking midfielders.

Not sure any Rangers player would wear green boots anyway.

McKay was.

I think the majority of us agree.