Rousseau

As I said before McInnes/Murty/JJ would be ideal.

Ideal how?

The red card did not cause result V Killie.,it was the most dreadful penalty I've ever seen by a Rangers and the subsequent failure in defence.

Maybe not, but there would not have been 9 minutes added on, and we'd have another body in the centre of midfield to defend. That situation did cost us, but you're right we were poor throughout and probably didn't deserve to win.

Well let's agree on something at the beginning; Pedro is no Sir Alex so comparing them is futile.

 

I don't know what you do for a living Rousseau so you might already have experience of this. If you manage a group of people at any one time some of them will be less happy than the rest. If those people are on performance bonuses that they're not achieving then they might be vocal about their unhappiness and if they believe that their ability to achieve their bonus is being held back by you, their manager, you can expect that disquiet to only grow.

 

PC didn't have a discipline problem, he had a failure to win matches problem. Every manager faces discipline problems, but if your side is winning regularly those problems are easier to deal with because you're in a position of strength.

 

Why do you think Graeme Murty brought on Hardie at the weekend, for all of 30 seconds? It wasn't tactical and we were already 3-1 up and Hearts had chucked it so the result wasn't in much danger. No, it was so he could get an appearance bonus and a win bonus. That's good management. Hardie won't have had many of them this season, and as a young striker not getting a game for a side that wasn't winning as often as it should he was almost certainly getting hacked off and questioning his future. In one go a player is appeased and given hope. How do you think Hardie will have been in training this week?

 

O'Halleron isn't 'crap'. Whether he'll ever make it at Rangers is moot, but publicly criticising him was a bizarre thing to do. MO'H had made no comment by that point after all, and the fact he'd found some form at St Johnstone I'd have thought would have drawn praise from PC whether he meant it or not. No one likes to hear their friends slagged off in public, MO'H has friends in the Rangers squad. No one likes to see their friends embarrassed in public, Kenny Miller has friends in the Rangers squad. Any manager who feels he has to do that is either lacking self-confidence or hasn't figured out how to manage professional footballers.

 

But as I said all of this wouldn't have mattered a jot if his side could have won the important matches. Had we beaten Progress and Motherwell and given Celtic more of a game than we did PC would still be manager. That was his problem.

I certainly wasn't comparing PC to Sir Alex! They're not even in the same league! It was an analogy to show sometimes you need to remove the cause of the problem.

So, you are saying it is not a disciplinary problem, it's bad management because results were not good enough.

However, surely discipline is distinct from results. Even if you're winning there can still be disciplinary problems, therefore results are irrelevant. Whatever he did you'd be criticising because "results weren't good enough". If he kept Miller and MOH around and results are bad, it's poor management and weak; get rid of Miller and MOH and results are bad, it's poor management. He can't win here.

If a player is causing problems, then yes, you try to cajole them, but sometimes you get shot of them; sometimes there is no other way. What else could PC do, assuming they won't follow the manager's instructions? Keep around a disrupting influence? You sell them, or demote them. I don't think it's an unusual situation?

I do have a problem with player's thinking they are bigger, or more important than, the manager. The manager is the most authoritative figure at a club, in terms of the team. We can't have a situation where a player can choose whether a manager stays or not, or what tactics or players they choose -- why not just give Miller the manager's position? He doesn't have the skills or experience for that role, so he should've put up or shut up. A player being dropped is normal, but it should be kept in-house; as far as I'm aware it wasn't the manager that 'leaked it'.

You're more than welcome to bask in the glory of his sacking, but I don't quite see the need to twist every situation to prove that he was a bad manager. We're just flogging a dead horse. The OP was merely suggesting that we may have a disciplinary problem, as it's not the first time we've had players speaking out -- it's not specific to PC.

I'm more than willing to concede that he wasn't good enough; results weren't good enough; performances -- although good in parts -- were not good enough. I disagree he was directly at fault for the disciplinary problems.

Moyes is interesting and McLaren terrifying. His Dutch title is a massive outlier in an otherwise under achieving CV.

I'm the opposite: McLaren is interesting -- although I don't think he's quite right -- and Moyes is terrifying!!

Moreover, the progressive tactics I'd like to see does not have to be a free-flowing, attack-at-all-costs philosophy like the Spanish or Dutch, but a more organised, intense pressing style like some German sides -- and Portuguese... --; to be honest, that would suit the Scottish game more than a Spanish approach.

Red Bull Salzburg play some stunning stuff -- high pressing, quick transitions etc. -- to great effect -- albeit built on Red Bull's war chest! Guys like Adi Hutter won leagues with RB Salzburg and are now doing well at other sides in Europe. Adi Hutter is currently running away with Young Boys in the Swiss league -- a league with a well-performing Basel in Europe. Surely these names are more approachable anyway? The DeBoers and Allardyces are more well-known here, but I suspect they'd be difficult to attract -- and I'm not sure their styles would suit our Scottish game.

Surely it's also a manager's job to get shot of a player that is causing problems? Sir Alex had no hesitation in shafting a player, and players far superior to Miller.

MOH was crap, Miller was causing problems, Forrester has always been a problem fitness-wise, Dodoo I'm not sure about to be honest; what other manager would put up with that. PC is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't in this situation.

I was thinking the other day how we seem to be categorising potential managers into two groups: foreigners with the tactical nous; and British managers that are "safer", will know what it means to play for Rangers and have us organised and hard to beat etc. But what about getting a British manager, like McInnes, but doing what Sir Alex did and bring in a tactically progressive coach? I'd be more than happy with that situation; a sort of best of both worlds.

McLaren is a very good coach, although I'm not sure he's quite done enough as a manager -- despite doing very well with Derby (1st spell) and winning the Eredivisie with Twente!

Having won last years competition i can certainly vouch that they are indeed class.

onevision shuffling into Ibrox like...

Gary Ralston article http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/former-rangers-scout-ewan-chester-11441820

 

"Those glory days, when Rangers reached the equivalent of the Champions League semi-final and the final of the UEFA Cup, have been eclipsed by the success of Brendan Rodgers’ Celtic in recent seasons."

Rewriting history I see...

He has a tendency to jump into a tackle, but that's just his inexperience, which will improve. His ability on the ball, to break lines and passing is impressive -- and those are things that are much harder to teach, IMO. Excellent prospect. I do prefer him to Cardoso too...

In terms of Kilmarnock since the turn of the century they've appointed Bobby Williamson, Jim Jeffries, Jimmy Calderwood as a temporary appointment, Mixu Paatelinen, who'd managed Hibs badly and Cowdenbeath prior, Kenny Sheils who was a Tranmere youth coach, Allan Johnson from QOTS, Gary Locke, Lee Clark and Lee McCulloch. I mean compared to that lot Steve Clarke's CV reads like Alex Ferguson.

 

I don't know who I want to manage Rangers. There's not an obvious person. I understand why McInnes name is mentioned a lot but I don't think his CV is much better than Tommy Wright's. In the end I want a pragmatist who can make a team greater than the sum of its parts. If we can do that we can challenge Celtic. They'll continue to have better individual players than us for a few more seasons, but they don't have to have a better team. I just don't know who that person is. I don't know enough about the Belgian people are speaking about. I do think a grasp of Scottish football, or at least British football and footballers is essential. This is where we play and these are the teams we play against, knowing how to beat them in the short term is what we need. Europe can take care of itself when that time comes again.

I can't argue with that! I actually thought Lee Clark was a coup, just because he had managed at the top-end of the Championship, but he's drifted since; now managing Bury in League One, and currently sitting 23rd. I can see Clarke going down the same route, although it might be a tad early to predict that.

I agree with the need for a pragmatist, but I'd rather we go for someone who can take us to the next level, as well as bringing the pragmatic, winning mentality. Perhaps that is wishful thinking?

Why do you think PC has a better CV than Clarke? A couple of Portuguese minnows, a big-ish Mexican club and then obscurity in the middle east against a guy who has coached or managed some big, big clubs and some smaller provincial clubs in England. The bottom side in the SPFL being able to appoint a guy who has coached the first teams of Chelsea, West Ham, Newcastle and Liverpool is fairly impressive, on paper at least. Kilmarnock have been appointing people with significantly weaker CVs than Clarke over the last 20 years.

I'm not sure how PC is too good for Kilmarnock myself, his CV is pretty ordinary by any standards.

 

It's academic, neither should be in the frame for the Rangers job in my opinion.

I don't really know what I'm arguing to be honest! I just thought our perceptions were interesting.

 

I wasn't overwhelmed at PC's appointment, but I thought he had a decent track record -- and I still believe it was a step forward for us, if not as far as we would've liked! I maintain he has a better CV than Clarke. If you take their 'coaching' (or, No.2) career then, clearly Clarke has experience of 'bigger' clubs -- although, at Chelsea I suspect he was just around because he was a club man, as it certainly wasn't to 'coach' in the traditional sense with Jose's preferred team --, but that same mentality ('winning', 'pressure' etc.) is gained at Sporting, Panathanaikos and Rapid Bucharest. You said he [Clarke] must have learned something from Jose, but PC was brought up in that whole philosophy, and even teaches it. Of course, you have to transfer that over to the team, and neither was able to do so (PC with us, anyway). Managerially (or, No.1), surely PC has the edge? He's won things at "big-ish" (subjective) clubs. They're both respected coaches (PC around Europe and South America, Clarke in England... ), and whether you believe PC was a step forward or not -- not, in your case -- I still maintain PC has the better CV.

 

But, yes, it is academic. Clarke's appointment is a bit of a coup, but I'm not sure why? Maybe it's my own prejudice regarding British and European coaches. There must be a reason why he'd been out of work for a year, and had to take a step down. It doesn't matter.

I think it's just my own prejudice against British coaches. I watch a lot of European matches, and I'm constantly fascinated by what's on offer, tactically; Leipzig, Dortmund, Atalanta, Napoli, Lille (albeit poorly at the moment!), PSG, Celta Vigo etc., are all remarkable in there own way.

Even when you look at the English PL, you have Guardiola, who's different from Mourinho, who's different from Conte, who's different from Klopp, and so on. And, then I look at the British coaches, and they're basically, for me anyway, producing variations of the same tactic; it's dated, boring and will not achieve anything of note in European competition.

That British element has it's part to play in the British game, but it's not the whole story. Sir Alex had that British knack ingrained in his teams, but he also relied upon Portuguese and Dutch coaches to supplement what he had.

To bring it back to the OP, that British element will have it's benefits, but I'm unconvinced it will take us to the next level.

Why do you think PC has a better CV than Clarke? A couple of Portuguese minnows, a big-ish Mexican club and then obscurity in the middle east against a guy who has coached or managed some big, big clubs and some smaller provincial clubs in England. The bottom side in the SPFL being able to appoint a guy who has coached the first teams of Chelsea, West Ham, Newcastle and Liverpool is fairly impressive, on paper at least. Kilmarnock have been appointing people with significantly weaker CVs than Clarke over the last 20 years.

I'm not sure how PC is too good for Kilmarnock myself, his CV is pretty ordinary by any standards.

 

It's academic, neither should be in the frame for the Rangers job in my opinion.

I don't really know what I'm arguing to be honest! I just thought our perceptions were interesting.

I wasn't overwhelmed at PC's appointment, but I thought he had a decent track record -- and I still believe it was a step forward for us, if not as far as we would've liked! I maintain he has a better CV than Clarke. If you take their 'coaching' (or, No.2) career then, clearly Clarke has experience of 'bigger' clubs -- although, at Chelsea I suspect he was just around because he was a club man, as it certainly wasn't to 'coach' in the traditional sense with Jose's preferred team --, but that same mentality ('winning', 'pressure' etc.) is gained at Sporting, Panathanaikos and Rapid Bucharest. You said he [Clarke] must have learned something from Jose, but PC was brought up in that whole philosophy, and even teaches it. Of course, you have to transfer that over to the team, and neither was able to do so (PC with us, anyway). Managerially (or, No.1), surely PC has the edge? He's won things at "big-ish" (subjective) clubs. They're both respected coaches (PC around Europe and South America, Clarke in England... ), and whether you believe PC was a step forward or not -- not, in your case -- I still maintain PC has the better CV.

But, yes, it is academic. Clarke's appointment is a bit of a coup, but I'm not sure why? Maybe it's my own prejudice regarding British and European coaches. There must be a reason why he'd been out of work for a year, and had to take a step down. It doesn't matter.

He'd one good season as manager of West Brom and other than that very little of note as a manager. But as a number 2 and a coach he's highly regarded in football apparently, certainly the list of clubs he's coached at is pretty impressive. He must have learned something during his time as Mourinho's assistant. It's about expectation, I'd have been very disappointed if we'd appointed Stevie Clarke, but he's a decent appointment for a club like Kilmarnock. I'd say the same about PC, his CV would have made him an interesting appointment for Killie, doesn't make him Rangers material though.

I just thought our perceptions interesting. When you look at their CV's, PC looks by far the better candidate -- too good for Killie --, but we're saying one is a dud and another has wonderful credentials? And when it came to us, a 'No.2 career' was irrelevant. I thought Killie getting Clarke was a coup, but now that I look, I'm not sure why? (I know Clarke wasn't touted as Rangers quality.)

Damn! I might have to watch their games now...

What's Steve Clarke actually achieved, though? Pedro's got much better credentials than Clarke.

What is it fans are expecting from McInnes, if indeed he is appointed? I keep hearing "safe pair of hands", but what is that?

I'm not sure McInnes is the one to close the gap on them. (I might just do a Pete and start calling him a dud now! )

The one thing I really found stupid was when Ryan Hardie came on. Ready to come on 87th minute. Gets a 3 minute tactic talk on the tablet. 90+1 minutes gets on the field. Gets 1 kick of the ball and the game ends. Surely a quick go on and chase everything down would have been enough and just get the lad on the park.

You wouldn't be saying that if a positional mistake cost us a last minute goal!

We even got the now expected howlers from Craig Thomson

 

Their GK handles outside the box & he misses it.

 

And I've not seen the one again where Morelos gets penalised when he out jumps their keeper in the first half & heads towards goal. Would like to see that one again.

It doesn't cross the line, but he wins the ball so clearly; I'm not even sure if they touch!?

We were a lot more compact today, vertically, which helped win the ball back and counter-attacking. I felt the space between our CBs and Morelos against Killie was huge. The idea was to open up the space in between the lines by stretching play, but we just couldn't find a man in there against Killie.

Hey dB can you give me the lottery numbers for tonight? Just pm me

Maybe give Barebear a PM too -- full 7 points in the prediction league...

The 'keeper's handball was laughable; how clear can you get?

Even the foul on Morelos' jump against the 'keeper was soft; he wins the ball clearly. 'Keepers get too much protection in those situations.

McCrorie is one of the few that is willing to break their lines, and his passing is usually spot-on. He makes the odd mistake, but you have to expect that from a young lad. Exceptional prospect.

You could probably write it: Lively going forward, dominating possession etc., then concede a worldy from a soft foul and the heads go a wee bit. We dug in, but for a spell there nothing went right.

Also, Miller scoring... That might be my first FGS of the season!! Failing to slip through Morelos for a golden opportunity sums him up: movement, positioning first class, but the final execution is woeful at times.