Rousseau

12 hours ago, pete said:

Well I have seen Directors of football in Holland and some in Germany but I have never seen one who hasn't played football at a prof level. So all he really is is another director with a fancy name with no idea of the professional game. what a Ckuf up.

That's not true. 

I'll leave you to wallow. 

No, just little tactical tweaks -- like launching a long ball into our left half-space/channel, as John and whoever is next to him seem to sh*te themselves at seeing it...  

11 minutes ago, buster. said:

.......but you forgot to mention it in the relevant post when my wording obviously referred to remit.

 

Of course you........... "don't think you can be given authority, in terms of respect." ............that's because as we all know, you can't.

Maybe I misinterpreted. 

I did mention character from the start -- could you not have pulled me up earlier?

The structure is irrelevant, though: it's 'settled' -- relatively speaking -- so the only difference is in the character of the individual. It's not the type of authority we can give. It's innate in the individual. 

Was I just arguing with myself?

20 minutes ago, DMAA said:

I prefer the sound of that. We can't repeat the mistake of looking for keepers and defenders "who can pass". On our budget that means you're half decent on the ball but mediocre at defending.

 

I think it's achieveable for us to try and emulate a squad more similar to the Walter's team in 2008 or Martin O Neill's in 2003 who both massively over-achieved in Europe. Brenda's sides are good in Scotland but woeful in Europe because they can't defend.

 

It's very hard to emulate Barcelona's style and be any good on our budget, but it's not that hard to build a team that's strong and physical whilst still having pace and dynamism going forward.

Yes, it'll be impossible to replicate Barca football. 

RB Salzburg have reached the Semi-final of the Europa playing great football; it's based on pace, energy and being direct. They can play possession football, but it's not their first strategy. It's all about being quick on transitions. It's pragmatic in its own way, but still modern. 

I do think we need our own style, which is traditionally tough defensively, while being pacey and powerful going forward. But, I think there's a way of implementing that within a modern approach. 

Salzburg have based it on pure energy, but within a modern framework of transition football, intelligent spacing and player positioning etc. 

11 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

Of course you can. It all depends on your remit.

 

Rodgers has apparently changed many aspects of the club that were outside of the remit that Delia was given. He was given authority over a lot of areas which has led to them becoming a lot more professional (and made him unpopular internally).

I did say in another post, other than in the job remit. 

I still don't think you can be given authority, in terms of respect. 

21 minutes ago, DMAA said:

That's a good point. There must be plenty of assistant's out there who are more than ready to become a no 1. It's a way of getting value without sacrificing experience.

 

I'm still unsure what this actually means. I thought Warburton was the epitome of this. What defines being a "modern" manager? It seems to me it's more about playing a possession based style than anything else. I think on our budget it's far easier to be competitive with Celtic and in Europe with a more traditional system with more emphasis on the physical side of the game.

Possession-based, yes, but I think pressing has come to the fore now too. Someone also that has an understanding of structure and spacing -- see the way Guardiola sets-up his sides to occupy space, and overload in specific zones etc., and then on the defence too, like keeping one full-back tucked-in to make a three at the back, to cover from counters.  

Warburton was, but more modern-lite! He didn't have the depth of knowledge, and couldn't deviate from that one play. 

Pragmatism, yes, but you can still have that pragmatism in a modern guise.  

18 minutes ago, buster. said:

I didn't say he was a 'modern coach', I said it was a 'modern approach' from that club.

 

If you want to change the wording to 'different' instead of modern, fine.

It was different and generally considered as 'modern' or 'fashionable'. 

Delia was working within a football operation and he didn't GET GIVEN the authority that Rodgers would later be given. In that respect he was effectivelly swimming against the tide from the start.

Part of the media ridiculed him to a degree (nothing compared with Cathro) and his immediate results in Europe were poor. He did have a strongish character but didn't apply it in a way that would be received favourably in Scotland.

 

They learned from their mistake and at the time could afford to make it.

I think you're swimming against the tide. 

We'll need to agree to disagree.

You cannot "GET GIVEN the authority".

I'm out (couldn't find a Bannatyne gif...):

3 minutes ago, buster. said:

In Delia's case it was about a board decision and was authority within a football operation he wasn't given.

 

It was their go at a 'modern approach'. They did it knowing they'd win the title regardless but eventually they acted on a problem when they saw us about to return to the top flight, not to mention their lack of CL revenue under the Norwegian.

 

I'd agree in the case of Cathro but it was a double whammy with him, ie. didn't 'exude' authority, nor was it given to him. This led to public ridicule and an inevitabe conclusion.

 

 

In this respect, Gerrard shouldn't have a problem when/if he arrives.

I disagree about Delia. He wasn't a 'modern coach', he was a fitness freak; different, and a change from what they have/had, but not modern. 

You can't be given authority, other than in being appointed. You have to take it. You have that character or you don't. And, even if you don't, it can be gained through winning.

I agree about Gerrard. 

1 hour ago, pete said:

I have just looked at our Director of Football's past and seemingly he has never played at senior level but has been a business man for most of his working life. He was well liked as Academy director but i would think that is mostly a business role.

The worrying thing is that Murty keeps telling us that he and Allen have been working on players for next season. I really worry the whole rangers set-up looks like the blind leading the blind.

Of course he's not got a 'footballing' background; otherwise you get a Levein situation at Hearts, interferring all the time.

He doesn't actually scout players: the scouts scout the players. The DoF sets the strategy, of the player profiles etc.  

1 hour ago, Darthter said:

That is a basic requirement of any manager, regardless of the style of football they like to play.

You can see ceptic adopting a more modern, passing style of play and all the while Brenda has the full respect of his players.

1 hour ago, buster. said:

You'd have thought so but some clubs have tried the Head Coach with diluted authority within a football operation.

 

SPFL

Hearts had mixed results, Neilson did ok whilst Cathro bombed and forced DoF to become authoritive  manager.

Celtic: Delia got binned.

 

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That said I think Gerrard would be given the authority.

Authority comes from innate character -- which none of those names had -- and winning. Their title is irrelevant.  

1 hour ago, buster. said:

I would argue that the modern approach didn't work for Celtic, ie. Ronnie Delia as Head Coach with diluted authority.

 

It required a 'mix' of a modern football operation with an authoritive figure as manager who wielded the real power within.

 

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I've said on several occasions that if we go down the 'expendable' Head Coach/DoF route we'll go through them like golf balls.

 

We need a leader who is comfortable and competent with real authority in charge of a modern day operation.

 

If the funds are there to attract Gerrard his staff and bankroll them then I'd have thought we should have enough to attract a more experienced and IMO suitable candidate.

That doesn't preclude a manager with a modern approach. 

Delia wasn't really 'modern', merely a fitness freak -- even that wasn't that great. Good times... 

16 minutes ago, Darthter said:

I think, to a certain extent Scotland is a "special case" in footballing terms....we simply haven't advanced in comparison to other nations - that is why our teams regularly get beaten by all sorts in Europe.  In general we still cling onto a blood n' guts style of play, where physicality & strength is preferred over skill & talent.

OK, special in the sense we still cling to that, but not special in the sense that a modern approach won't work (See Them).

14 minutes ago, buster. said:

Peace brother 

 

Let's see what actually happens and then we can resume the discussion.

8 minutes ago, buster. said:

Rangers play in Scotland and it's that enviroment that is relevant to this discussion. What works or doesn't in Germany has regrettably very little relevance to our lot up north.

 

Let me spell this out for you. In the current circumstances, a laptop type of manager won't work at Ibrox. Taking that further, a laptop manager without any managerial experience taking over the club would be "institutional Failure" part II.

 

I shouldn't have referred to experienced leadership as being 'old-fashioned', it's simply practical common sense.

You're pigeon-holing, missed my point entirely, seem to think Scotland is some special case, and insulted my intelligence. Great job. 

Again, my point was: we seem to be looking at a top-class, experienced manager, which would cost too much, or a complete unknown, which is perhaps too big a gamble; it's extremes. A middle way, where we look for an assistant who has worked with a top manager, who's looking for their first foray into management, may have provided a 'best of both worlds' scenario. It was hypothetical.

I never called for the appointment of a "laptop manager", but merely disagreed with your perceived pejorative slant. 

Brendan Rodgers is not "old-fashioned", and I think he's doing alright... 

1 hour ago, buster. said:

New and modern ideas aren't enough on their own and having someone who has never managed or been a Manager/Number One impart said ideas is higher risk than need be.

 

Cathro was an example of your typical laptop coach who was on a hiding to nothing in the world of Scottish fitbaw.

He was like the specky new kid in class who the school bullies see as easy meat. The latter being the media who were itching to get after him and the extra pressure was on from before his first game. He was too weak and turned up for a while hiding his bruises but in the end, his diluted authority was largely ignored by players and he left the building, probably never to manage at a decent level again.

 

Sometimes, I think there are 'laptop messageboard posters' who see nearly everything through stats and formations. Fair enough, it plays it's part but that alone isn't going to cut it at Ibrox. We need some real old fashioned leadership, allied to experience, football savvy and an eye for a player that'll fit within a plan.

 

Who said they were? My point was that it might have provided the best value, including experience, leadership, modern ideas etc. 

We're looking at a top-class, experienced manager, which would cost too much, or a complete unknown, which is too big a gamble; it's extremes

A middle way, where we look for an assistant who has worked with a top manager, who's looking for their first foray into management, may have provided a 'best of both worlds' scenario. It was hypothetical.

I take it you're going with the Scottish media's pejorative slant on 'laptop manager'? It's a positive term in Germany... We need to stop pigeon-holing. Just because someone likes stats, doesn't mean that's all they look at. If a football club is not using stats in some form in this day and age, then something is far wrong.

it's part of the problem that we are looking to go "old fashioned". The game's moved on; we have to move with it. 

Now that I think about it, we should've been looking at a top quality assistant to appoint as our manager; someone that's involved with a top manager, that brings new, modern ideas. It offers more value than going after an unknown.

I'd take Buvac in a heartbeat -- he's the brains behind Klopp's Gegenpressing. 

Can we have Gerrard and Buvac as joint managers? Or Buvac as #2?

11 hours ago, MacK1950 said:

Bearger posted same on main forum,cheers.

11 hours ago, BEARGER said:

Great minds think alike, must be something to do with the school attended.

Oh... that proves it: Bad decision!  

11 hours ago, BEARGER said:

Chris Coleman has left Sunderland, experienced manager. Just saying.

Yes, but clearly lacking when he doesn't have Bale in his team.

Just saying.  

Murty should never have been given until the end of the season -- to the end of the year was too long. 

But, he was, so we'll need to put up with it until the end of the season. 

3 minutes ago, buster. said:

I've heard of semi-professionals but Pena coming back, adds a semi-retired player to our squad.

 

There is no "perhaps" about it, the guy is finished. 

Perhaps.  

Flicked it over for a second to see Holt win the ball, only to get booked... 

We keep saying 'why didn't X and Y play?', but we've been through every player, twice or thrice at least. 

The management means everyone playing will look poor.

We have to look for the positives here...

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