JohnMc

I've not done one for a while. Is Aberdeen this weekend still free?

King isn't an employee, but I take the point you're making. What I'd say here though is there's no "whiff or rumour" in this case, the judge's summation speaks for itself. Look, I accept it's highly inlikely it's going to happen, I'm just surprised how relaxed most people seem to be about it.

No, that's fair. It might make removing him more palatable though.

I read it as a rebuttal, but fair enough if that wasn't how it was meant.

I'm not shocked. I'm a little surprised that Db, and then you rbr, tried to suggest that McParland hadn't done anything wrong. I'd hoped that as supporters we'd be a little more open to the truth now. Where I'm going with this is posting it on the best Rangers supporters forum because I couldn't see it on it. What I wanted was to bring it to the attention of the posters on Gersnet. I didn't expect the first reply to be 'nothing to see here move along' in a German accent. Maybe you think lying in court is acceptable behaviour for a senior Rangers employee? If it was up to me I'd fire him for this. Added to that our recruitment since he joined has been woeful, combined with his clear dishonesty I'd say he should be removed from his position instantly.

Well if you're not convinced guys try Google... First hit is this... "In a later ruling on legal costs Waksman recorded that Lee’s and McParland’s evidence about the meetings was “unreliable” and “false”, saying: “The events attested to by the Bolton witnesses concerning these meetings simply did not happen. True, I did not use the word ‘dishonesty’ [in his first judgment] but plainly, if their evidence on the facts on this issue was false, they must have known it to be so.” You know, there are times when we should circle the wagons, close ranks and protect our own, but there are also times when we should face facts and ask questions. If we've still not learned that after the last few years then we clearly are our own worst enemies. Bottom line the Rangers 'Head Of Recruitmet' lied to a court to protect an agent who stood to make a lot of money from a transfer he endorsed. That should trouble us more than it seems to be currently in my opinion.

No, it doesn't say that DB it says the opposite. It says, pretty clearly I think, that McParland lied to the court. It's a corcern not just because it does cast a big shadow over his character but also because it show's the influence some agents clearly hold over him.

Now, I'm not naive, I know stuff goes on in football and it always has. Agents and players and managers and coaches make money through various ways, sometimes not in an orthodox way. Favouring a certain agent could be done for a lot of reasons, that on its own doesn't mean corruption, however lying in court is something I'm very uncomfortable with. "Perhaps worse than the apparent breaches of regulations, certainly more depressing for lovers of our national game, were Waksman’s findings about the lying and dishonesty of these football men. Of Lee and McParland’s story about discussing McCann with SEM in a Liverpool restaurant in May 2007, Waksman summarised in his ruling on legal costs: “The events attested to by the Bolton witnesses concerning these meetings simply did not happen. True, I did not use the word ‘dishonesty’ [in his original judgment], but plainly if their evidence on the facts on this issue was false they must have known it to be so.” The full article is here - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/08/sammy-lee-sam-allardyce-fa-england-double-standards None connected come out of this well, only McParland now works for us though so he's the only one I care about.

Fans of smaller clubs hated them and hated the media for fawning over them and telling the whole 'fairy tale rise' story. Livingston get a bit of that too. German football culture is different from here. Their fans are very much part of their clubs, oligarchs and Arabian Sultans aren't welcomed with open arms and football isn't all about money. Maybe DB can confirm this but wasn't their a law that German sport's clubs had to be 51% fan owned? If you get the chance Dell read Tor! an English language history of German football. It's excellent, well written and enlightening (for me at least). For example I'd no idea that the West German football was amatuer up to the 1960s, German players would leave for professional leagues abroad but never be picked by West Germany again, they bloody won World Cups with amatuers. I was in Berlin earlier this year for the first time. My taxi driver from the airport was from Dresden, we got talking about football as you do and he told me the first football match he ever attended was Dynamo Dresden v Rangers in the Fairs Cup. He'd followed us ever since. We shared tales of following our clubs in the depths of our respective leagues as Dresden have hit hard times too. He got a good tip.

Was Warburton expected to turn up Pete? To accuse him of a lacking respect is a surprise if we don't even know if he's part of the process or not. Warburton isn't his employer, he's his line manager, HR and legal people will be handling this now, Warburton will be asked, and expected, to turn up when the need arises. in my experience of employees being suspended there will be some sort of review period for the suspension, it can't run indefintely. Yesterday's meeting was propably a box ticking formality and all sides know that. It seems fairly clear there is no way back for Barton. Personally I'm pleased the club aren't just paying off his contract and hopefully he'll move on in January in the normal way of things. I assume Warburton doesn't want Barton around the squad and the players, first team or youth, so this is the only legal way to see it through to January. Barton has already played for two clubs this year, there might be an issue with him playing for a third and that might be what's preventing him being released and moving to another side before January. The '3 club' rule usually applies to a season rather than a calendar year but perhaps lawyers are concerned about its interpretation.

We've a squad and it's a long season, he'll get his chance. I don't think there's any doubt McKay and Waghorn should be ahead of him and Forrester too, Miller is in good form as well just now. O'Haloran needs to bide his time, we'll get injuries and suspensions as the season progresses and he'll get a turn, then it's up to him to take it. Sometimes bringing in players like O'Haloran and and Garner helps spur on existing players. Miller's form has improved since Garner joined, whilst McKay hasn't dazzled this season yet he remains our best creater of chances for others and takes two defenders with him wherever he goes. Along time ago now we signed a player called Duncan Ferguson. He was a force of nature and arguably the most talented Scottish player of his generation. It didn't work out for him for a variety of reasons but one of the forgotten upsides of his arrival was the improvement in form of Mark Hateley. He was clearly brought in to challenge Hateley and Hateley's response was to provide his two best seasons in light blue. My point is that if nothing else O'Haloran provides competition an essential part of any squad.

Lafferty's problem isn't his ability it's his attitude. He didn't make it at Rangers becasue of that and he's failing at Norwich for the same reason. He has skill, he's strong and fast as well, but he's got broken bottles for brains and it's difficult to do anything about that now.

As I see it there are two issues that need addressed; the quality of football and the interest in our club. The question is does an 'Atlantic League' address one, or both, of those issues. The quality of football in the league we're currently in is poor. Scottish sides are regularly knocked out of Europe in the early, early rounds, even Celtic qualifying for Champion's League has resulted in their heaviest ever defeat this season. In my lifetime Scottosh club sides were competitive on the highest level, today we're simply not. The quality of player we, as a country, produce is also sub-standard. A succession of international managers have been unable to make a silk purse out of the sow's ear that is the Scottish international side, the SPFL and it's predecessors are largely responsible for that. Part of the reason for this is a lack of vision, organisation and strategy, further hindered by self-interest and a lack of finance. The interest in our club is also a concern for me. True, we're still regularly playing in front of sell-out crowds, but have a look around you next time you're at Ibrox, take in the average age of the fan present, it's 40plus. The next generation of football supporter, the kid brought up in multi-channel, hi-definition, super sunday EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga Live get's t watch Real Madrid, Messi, Aguero any time they want. Why is that person going to pay good money to go to Ibrox to watch sub-standard football played by ordinary players? At my north Glasgow primary school every boy in my year, without exception, supported Rangers or Partick Thistle. My sons today go to a different Glasgow primary school but one with much in common with the one I attended. In their class there might be half a dozen boys who identify as Rangers supporters. The 10 year olds today support Chelsea, Man City, Barcelona as their first team. They can see these clubs anytime that like, every match is live. Their players are glamourous, famous and pretty good at football as well. Local sides don't get much of a look-in. I've lived in Ireland, I've seen first hand what happens to local football when an entire population supports club sides in another country. If you don't think that can happen here then you've not being paying attention. Can the Atlantic League help address these issues; maybe. But it has a better chance than the current set-up does. The big risk to the Champion's League isn't the Atlantic League, it's the English Premier League. It already attracts more money than the Champion's League. There's an inevitability that an NFL style football league will emerge in Europe. Broadcasters want it, advertisers want it and certain clubs want it. Rangers currently have no chance of being invited to that. If an Atlantic League helps our club grow it's profile again, attract better players, play better football against sides also playing better football then we need to seriously consider it. There was a time in our history when the Glasgow Cup was a big tournament, it carried prestige, attracted big crowds to derby matches and was looked forward to by the fans. Times change. I think there will be a 'land grab' in football soon. Clubs will break ranks with UEFA, they'll decide to go it alone and to hell with the consequences. Something like the Atlantic League might just be the spark. I'd prefer us to join the English League but that's not likely as things stand, so the Atlantic League needs considered. Something has to change or, frankly, in a generation's time we'll be Linfield.

Yes, as has been said above one of the great ironies of Celtic's nine-in-a-row period was that Rangers had one of their best ever sides during that period, contesting two European Finals and winning one of them. It's no exageration to say that Glasgow was as strong a footballing city as any in the world at the time. The other difference between that period and the early 80s was we were competitive then. Celtic had a great side and were managed by a genius, but we were very good too, just not quite good enough. We were arguably watching one of the finest Rangers side in history at the time. In the early 80s we weren't even second best. There's an article to be written about this period and the affect of the baby-boomer generation on Scottish/British football. The post-war babies were in their 20s in the late 60s and early 70s, the peak for footballers. The UK suffered significantly fewer casualities and infrastructural destruction than most of continental Europe during WW2, this must have played a part in the development of the sport. Last half of the 1960s first half of the 70s saw Celtic and Man U win the European Cup, England win the World cup and reach the quarter finals in 1970, as well as Rangers, Wolves, Spurs, Liverpool, West Ham, Chelsea and Manchester City all reach European Finals. Even Linfield and Glentoran reached European quarter finals in this period.

For me, there were two matches that were signifiers of the era. The first was the 1982 Scottish Cup Final against Aberdeen. We'd already won the League Cup that season but it was another fase dawn and our league form wasn't good as we finished a distant 3rd, ten points behind 2nd placed Aberdeen. Aberdeen hammered us in the final, it was 4-1 after extra time but that suggests the first 90 minutes were close and they weren't. But it wasn't just the result it was the sides too. Aberdeen had exciting young players like Leighton, Miller, McLeish, Strachan, Cooper, Simpson and Hewitt with Eric Black on the bench. Rangers bench had Tommy McLean on it, he was 35 at the time. The starting 11 included stalwarts of the great 70s Rangers sides Sandy Jardine and Alex Miller, both were fit and talented but well into their 30s and passed their best, our young players were John McDonald and Gordon Dalziel and it was clear even then that neither was international class, unlike Aberdeen's young players. That match signified the passing of a baton from Rangers to Aberdeen. Aberdeen had finished only 2 points behind champions Celtic in the league and were clearly building an exciting young team. We did have some good players in our side, Bobby Russell, Davie Cooper, Jim Bett and John McLelland all started the match and were international class players but the players around them simply weren't. That Aberdeen side went on to beat Real Madrid to win the Cup Winners Cup they qualified for beating Rangers. They also won the league twice whilst Rangers struggled to finish fourth. Fast forward to August 31st 1986. A new Rangers side were playing Celtic at Ibrox in the first Old Firm match of the season. Souness had become manager a few months before and had signed Terry Butcher, Chris Woods and Colin West from the English league. Butcher in particular was one of the finest defenders in the world at the time and Souness (sorry, as an Everton fan this might hurt) was one of Europe's best midfielders and had been Scotland captain going into the summer's World Cup (in the days when Scotland qualified for tournaments). But the season hadn't started too promisingly. Opening day defeat to Hibs was followed by a close win at home to Falkirk then defeat at home to Dundee Utd. We beat Hamilton away before welcoming champions Celtic to Ibrox having won only two of our first four matches of the season. Celtic had a good side, they'd won the league on the final day of the season a few months before, in a time when the league was genuinely competitive and three or four sides went into it with realsitic expectations of success. They were unbeaten going into the match, winning every game except one, a draw with Aberdeen. They were the form side and the champions. Rangers won the match 1-0. A suberb finish from Ian Durrant set up by a sublime run and assist from a revitalised Davie Cooper. It wasn't just the result though, it was the manner of the performance. We went toe-to-toe with the champions and we outplayed them. Our side now had four genuinely international class players in Souness, Cooper, Woods and Butcher alongside exciting young players like Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant and Derek Ferguson. We'd had a few false dawns over the previous 6 years, but this felt different, and that's not just with hindsight. It was clear even then that Durrant was a class above above any other young player we'd produced in a couple of decades. McCoist, a player who didn't look like he'd make it at Ibrox before that season was suddenly scoring for fun and, probably most importantly, Davie Cooper a veteran of the side, a player gifted with incredible close control and power, responded to the improvement in squad and attitude to produce his defining season. He was immense, unplayable at times, drawing defenders out of position to create space for others to exploit, creating chances and looking like he was actually enjoying football again. That was the day I believed we could win the league again. We laid down a marker that day. By the end of the seaon Alex Ferguson had left Aberdeen and Davie Hay was sacked as Celtic manager. We won the league that season and the League Cup and most tellingly changed Scottish football for seasons to come. Now we can debate whether ultimatley that change was for the better now, but at the time it certainly was.

Really Pete, "our" heritage? Speak for yourself, it's not mine. EDIT Ah, see later in the thread you were being sarcastic, apologies.

Undoubtedly the reaction by some would have been quite different had Rangers supporters attacked Hibs players, I've little doubt about that. It doesn't change the point though, how can Rangers prevent that and should they be held responsble for it? The Hibs chairman's response was disgraceful. Celtic's response to the effigies and the banners and Aberdeen's to the bus scratching was too, director's of clubs are terrified to upset their vocal lunatic fringe for some reason. Siding with what's right is seen as more hassle than it's worth and that's a shame, it gives entirely the wrong impression. Doesn't change my view that the SFA and the police are responsible here, along with the idiots who perpetrated the acts.

I don't think Hibs are responsible for the behaviour of their fans. As such I don't think they can be punished. Do we think that The Stone Roses or Calvin Harris should be fined because of the violence that took place at T In The Park this summer? The people responsible for policing T In The Park are the organisers and the police, not the bands performing. Likewise neither Rangers or Hibs can seriously be held responsible for the behaviour of supporters surely? Short of running onto the park and pushing fans off it the director's of Hibs have no control over what fully grown adults will do in any particular situation. Neither do the Rangers directors, or officials or employees. This whole thing has been a smokescreen. Those who should be held responsible for what happened are the individuals who took part in invading the park, vandalism and assaults, the SFA as the organisers of the match and the police. Crimes took place, assaults took place. It's the job of the police to firstly prevent this, something they clearly failed at, then secondly to bring the perpetrators to justice. Fining Hibs or Rangers for something neither club has any control over is simply passing the buck. The fact that it was the SFA who were holding this enquiry simply underlines the absurdity of it. Rangers in particlular should be taking legal action against them for failing to provide protection and a safe working environment. The cries of 'strict liability' are once again buck passing. This simply means the police and the organisers, both who make money from simply doing their jobs at these events, don't want to take responsibility for what happens at them. I think that's absurd. Rangers supporters are rightly angry that our players were assaulted and some of our fans put in danger. The responsibility for this lies with the SFA and with the police, both of who are looking for someone else to blame. We shouldn't help them do this.

double post.

Great stuff, well done. Love the tangerine tin story, the little individual acts of defiance always make me smile. As for Saturday, ach well, whatever the score I'll still be a bluenose afterwards so there's always that.

Right, so because RC schools exist a few hundred drunken neds belted out 'No Pope Of Rome' at a football match in Kilmarnock on Friday? I'm sorry but that's nonsense, total nonsense. The people who sung the songs in question on Friday are arrogant, bigoted, morons who are so out of touch with reality it beggars belief and who don't care what damage they do to the club and its support. Why does anyone make excuses for these pricks? Why don't we have four pages of utter condemnation for these arseholes who once again feel the best way to support Rangers is to sing about near hundred year old razor gangs led by fascists and fantasy songs about the Pope? It's not the BBC's fault these dicks sung that song. It's not the fault of the Roman Catholic church, or the SNP or the police the fault lies firmly at the feet of the cretins who sung it. Nowhere else. If you don't like the fact the song is banned, if you feel you should be able to sing 'no chapels to sadden my eyes' in public whenever you want then take it up with your MSP and your MP, lobby parliament, crowdfund a campaign, occupy George Sq, stand for election on this argument, pay for advertising explaining your views. But please, please stop fuckin singing it at Rangers games. It's 2016.

Dundalk are in the Europa League this season so they've probably got a bit more cash than normal, plus his Dad is managing Derry City so he'll know the standard involved. Can't be many players have left Rangers and joined an League Of Ireland side. He was a frustrating player Shiels, you could see flashes but never consistently. He was very highly rated as a teenager, another one who looked like a potential star at 15.

By my reckoning only three of our likely starting line-up will have played at Parkhead for us before, that's a big disadvantage. A hostile, full Parkhead gives them an advantage and I worry some of our players might freeze. I expect Celtic will come at us from the first whistle, close us down and put us on the back foot, if we can weather that and keep moving the ball we'll silence their support. But if a few of our players freeze and Celtic get an early goal I expect a long, difficult afternoon. They're a momentum team, geared up to attack and if we let them it might be horrible. I also don't think they're that much better than us, but home advantage really helps them and our form has been patchy, but the match is still a few weeks away and a lot can happen between now and then. Rodgers sides were never good defensively and his player recruitment was patchy at best, but he can motivate players and he can get the best out of attacking players, so we'll need to be careful.

That's great news, well done. From being banned by the West End Festival to international travel awards, quite the journey. I did the tour with my Dad a few years ago and would wholeheartedly concur with the sentiments above, something every bluenose should do and indeed of interest to any real football supporter.

Yeah probably a couple at most, certainly nothing like last nights Hezbollah-a-thon. You're right it's no more prevalent than the American or Canadian flag or indeed the Bosnian flag. I've never seen a Palestinian flag, we've never had a Palestinian player though.