JohnMc

Players have more agency in this than we're giving them credit for. If we approach Hearts for example and make a bid of say £1.5 mil for Shankland Hearts are within their rights to say 'no' for a variety of good reasons, not least their inability to replace Shankland and his contribution to their side. But, if Shankland knows moving to Rangers would give him a signing on fee of say £500,000 and see his salary treble, he's perfectly entitled to go to Hearts and say 'you're stopping me bettering myself and my livelihood, will you match Rangers salary offer'? If Hearts say 'no, you've got a contract honour it', then they've an unhappy player and, potentially unrest in their changing room, as it won't be just Shankland speaking with their agent about this. Shankland has 18 months left on his Hearts contract, he's a diminishing asset, worth less now than last summer and worth less next summer if he doesn't sign a contract extension. Hearts would need to weigh up criticism from their support and the loss of an important player, with cashing in on a player who by that point may no longer want to be there. This is the same scenario if we made a bid for an Aberdeen player or a Hibs player or any club in Scotland with the exception of Celtic. It's all very well for Aberdeen or whoever to play hardball and demand well over the odds for a player, but it's not without consequences not least pressure from the player himself. It was reported that the reason we allowed Sakala to leave in the summer was the offer made to him by the Saudi side was not one we could match and so we wouldn't stand in his way. I expect it was the same with Aribo and Bassey the summer before. Every club has to balance the books, keep their support onside and their playing squad happy. It's easier for Aberdeen or Hearts to convince a potential signing to join if they can point to a 'pathway' to a bigger club with higher salaries, even if the club is Rangers.

Butland. It's defeat without him.

Whatever it is people see in Ridvan, I don't. I'd sell him tomorrow. For a club that's spent money on Dessers, Lammers and Pena in recent times I see Ridvan in that same bracket, no idea what it was we saw in him. I genuinely wonder if Ross Wilson bought him just so someone at the club was smaller than him.

We will lose players during the next month, there will be knocks, injuries and suspensions that's inevitable. We might play in some shocking conditions, it's winter in Scotland after all so poor pitches and poor conditions are going to be a factor too. What Clement needs is luck, good luck. If we can keep key players fit and in form we've a chance of coming through what is a farcical amount of football in a short space of time. More importantly though is if we don't, if do lose some key players, if we drop some points, endure some disappointing results, that we don't overreact. Our squad isn't as strong as it should be, and it seems our fitness and medical standards aren't what they should be either. It's remarkable what Clement has managed to achieve results and performance wise in a short time, but he's not a magician, there are players in our squad who simply aren't good enough, who we'll need to persevere with for now. It's great to be looking forward to watching us again, to be hopeful instead of pessimistic, but Clement has shown enough in a short time to be afforded some leeway if there are hiccups in the coming weeks.

Yeah, probably. Although I suspect there are some players we'd hold out for a really big offer for as we'd rather not lose them at this stage, and others we'd let go more easily.

Clement will be familiar with Hagi from his time in Belgium and may already have an opinion on him. Hagi has ability, that's clear for everyone to see, but I suspect if a side make us a decent offer for him we'll take it. It might be that a more technical league, like Spain, suits him more. What we'd accept for him is another matter, breaking even might be as good as it gets.

I'm getting confused by the positions and formations but the best attacking midfielder I've watched in light blue was Ian Durrant. Before his injury Ian Durrant was an utter joy to watch, he had an uncanny ability to ghost into space, he'd wonderful balance, superb vision and perfect timing. Durrant scored big goals, goals in cup finals, Old Firm matches and European games. He worked hard too, he covered every inch of the pitch. If you ever get a chance to watch the 2-2 Old Firm match where Butcher and Woods were sent off, watch Durant's performance in the second half. He was playing every position in midfield while supporting McCoist up front. His run in the last minute for Gough's goal couldn't be matched by Celtic, his strength and stamina really showed that day, as did his will to win. My formative years watching Rangers weren't very happy ones. Greig as manager followed by the false dawn of Wallace's return. The glimmer of hope was the skinny wee midfielder with the mop of curly hair who broke into the side under Wallace. There are players who have a higher profile and played more games for Rangers, but at their best there were few who could best Durrant at his best.

I'd an irrational dislike for Gary Stevens. Don't ask me to explain it or justify it, I can't. I just didn't like him. It has to be Jardine. Many people think Danny McGrain was the best right back Scotland has produced, but he was played at left back for Scotland because Jardine was such a good right back, this at a time when Scotland had genuine world class players. When he left Rangers everyone assumed his career was over. He only went and won Scottish Player Of The Year at Hearts. Jardine 'managed' a charity side I played in at Ibrox once. He was faced with a dressing room full of guys who'd bid for a place in the team. We were mainly a motley mix of overweight, middle-aged men living a childhood dream. He took a look at us and said 'lads, it's a big pitch, let the ball do the running.' I should have listened, I could barely breathe after 10 minutes. My father would say Bobby Shearer should win this, and his record is really something.

Butland, Cantwell, Raskin, Goldson, Danilo, Soutar and Davies all have a value just now from a few million up to around £8 or £9 million depending on how desperate the English club side are who want to buy them. There's also the outside possibility that Matondo, McCausland and Rice could be worth something by the end of the season too. All things considered I think these are disappointing annual figures.

George Young, who I never saw play but whose record speaks for itself and who is held in such regard by those who did see him play that there seems little doubt to his incredible ability. Richard Gough, a natural leader and as good a centre half as there was playing anywhere at his peak. Terry Butcher was arguably the best centre half in the world when he joined us, and was immaculate in his first season. However I'd vote for Young and Gough simply due to their longer time spent at the club. But a centre half line up of Butcher and Frank De Boer at their peak would have been something to see.

I'm late to this but it has to be Numan. Having Brian Laudrup playing in front of him was of immense help to Robertson, but frankly Brian Laudrup could have made me look like a decent full back as he took 3 defenders with him wherever he went leaving acres of space to charge into. Robertson was good, but Numan was class.

I can't believe I forgot my favourite moment of Rangers goalkeeping, now the thread can close!

Regency bias is always present in these discussions. Andy Goram played 181 games for Rangers and for those of us lucky to have seen him he literally won matches for us, Leeds away and numerous Celtic matches come to mind. While the perfect keeper for that time, I doubt Goram would be our number one now, his kicking wasn't his strength, but his agility, reflexes and ability to get inside opposing players and managers heads was unrivalled. Stefan Klos played 254 times for Rangers, a wonderful return for a player who looked after himself and studied the game. Like Goram he wasn't strong with his passing but his ability to pull off saves was equal to Goram's in my opinion. Klos lacked the personality of Goram, he was quieter and didn't have the rapport with the support that Goram did. But 'der goalie' was an incredible Rangers keeper. Bobby Brown spent the 7 seasons before joining Rangers fighting in the 2nd world war. Training to be a PE teacher and playing with Queens Park he joined up along with 5 of his fellow students. He was the only one of them to return. Brown played for Rangers 211 times, a period when Scottish football was genuinely competitive. Bill Struth chose Brown as his first choice for 8 seasons, Brown then remained as an understudy to George Niven for a further 2 years. George Niven himself made 221 appearances for Rangers, holding the number 1 spot for nearly a decade. He holds the unusual distinction of being the Scot with the most appearances for Rangers to have never gone on and played for his country. His successor was Billy Ritchie, who some on the forum might have seen play. He made 207 appearances for Rangers, including a European final. Where regency bias is a negative is with Allan McGregor. I think McGregor is our all time best goalkeeper. I didn't see Niven, Brown or Ritchie play, but I did see Goram, Klos and McGregor and the latter edges it for me. I suspect many of our memories are clouded by last season, a season to far for McGregor. But McGregor made 346 appearances for Rangers and pulled off the two best saves I've ever watched, against Bremen and Slavia. McGregor combined agility and instinctive reflexes with a commanding presence and a will to win that helped transform our dressing room into league winners. These things are subjective, but for me Allan McGregor shades it, but there's some competition for his place.

He seems to be well thought of as a coach, has previous experience of coaching in Belgium and knows the Scottish league well, he's hardly a controversial appointment. I have an admiration for someone who can face their self destructive behaviour, deal with it and then remain sober for 25 years. I'd be concerned if Rae was being appointed manager, but as part of a coaching team under Clement I think his place makes sense. Clement doesn't come across as someone who suffers fools or is swayed by sentiment. I expect he'll remove Rae if he doesn't feel he's contributing what he needs. Whatever happens speaking about him with a little respect costs nothing.

That's some way to speak about an ex-player and current coach.

Yeah, I think I can agree that we're watching completely different games.

Lammers worked hard closing down and doesn't hide when we have possession, he made a contribution last night. He's improved since Clement arrived, like everyone else I'm doubtful he's going to make it with us, but I'm not sure who you play in his place currently. He'd one beautiful bit of skill late in the 2nd half, he got fouled but the ref played the advantage which came to nothing. As we keep saying there's a player in there, he's just hiding him very well. Prague were always going to come back into it in the second half. Sparta are no mugs, they've some decent players and are experienced at this level. That they changed their tactics and upped their game after half time shouldn't surprise anyone. This is the Europa League, we're going to have periods where the opposition are on top. As it was we defended pretty well and again Butland showed his quality, he's been a great signing. Four weeks ago I wouldn't have believed this performance was possible. What Clement, his coaching team and our players have done in such a short space of time is remarkable. We're not only winning again we're doing it in an attractive and exhilarating way.

C'mon, why don't you include Ian Durrant then, how about Derek Johnstone or John Greig? I mean if you're counting players from 20 years ago why not just make it 50 years and we can close the discussion now? Or, we can talk about the here and now, where we actually are as a club and deal with reality? If they don't break through to our first team then really, what's the point? Listing players the club released as an example of how good our youth system is seems a self defeating argument. The fact that Greg Taylor is a first choice full back for Celtic is not the ringing endorsement for the Rangers 'Academy' that you seem to think it is. Look, I'll be delighted if McCausland, Rice and King, or any of our current youths, go on and establish themselves as first team regulars, I'll gladly recant my criticism. I'm sceptical, but we'll see. Ryan Kent played 140 games for Rangers, that's a decent return for any player who was 19 when they joined us. Did we overpay for him, probably, and should we have sold him a couple of seasons ago, definitely. Same with Morelos and Kamara. But all 3 of those players contributed more to our first team than every Academy player put together over the last 5 seasons. Let Motherwell or Hibs or Charlton or whoever develop them into first team players, then we should sign them young, offer them the chance to play in front of 50,000, European football, the chance of medals and fame before moving to a wealthier club in a wealthier league. From the outside that looks to be a much better 'business model' for the club. It's interesting that Celtic had a short period where they developed McGregor, Forrest, Christie and Tierney, successfully integrating them into their first team. The period coincided with us being out of the league. Without us the challenge to win the SPFL was much easier, Celtic could afford to drop points, take some chances on youth and know it wouldn't really matter come title time. Since our return they've not developed anyone of note. I don't think that's coincidence. I've been having this same conversation on here for a long time. I'd love Rangers to be able to spot, nurture and produce our own players, but unfortunately all the available evidence says we haven't and can't.

Family friend or not he's hardly a poster boy for our youth set up or someone I'd be holding up as an example to our current young players. Are you really comparing Rangers to Falkirk? We've really only got Nathan Paterson to show for years of work and millions invested. Gilmour left the second he could, as did Mebude and Rory Wilson earning us very little in reality. More importantly we've really only got Leon King as a recognised first team squad player and he's what, fifth choice now? I've unhappily come to the conclusion that we'd be better off focusing our energy and money on finding players in the 18 to 21 age group. Bassey, Aribo, Kent, Morelos have provided far better value for us, I think Lewis Ferguson, Doig and Hickey could have done similar too. Hopefully Raskin will prove a good player for us and command a decent fee in the future. If we accept that we're now a stepping stone club, a tier below much wealthier leagues, then those are the kind of players we should focus on.

Charlie Miller didn't come close to fulfilling his potential, he was genuinely one of the best players in the world when he was a schoolboy. Barry Ferguson did, but I doubt he would have if Advocaat hadn't taken over when he did and chose to build a side around him. Of the players you've mentioned above I suspect only Bailey Rice has a real chance of making it with us. The rest will get some games but I can't see them become first team regulars, I expect they'll move on when their contracts are up. Lowry still has a chance, but his inability to secure a starting berth in a poor Hearts side suggests to me he's still missing that something required to become a top professional. We hear the same platitudes about pathways and opportunities trotted out time and again, but I honestly wonder if we should bin our youth set up and simply focus on our first team. Indeed I'd go as far as to say all professional football clubs in this country should.

I think McKenna will peddle whatever the hierarchy down London Road way tell him. I've never seen much capacity for original thought.

Add me to the 'not sure why we didn't buy Shankland' camp. He was the best forward on the park yesterday, scored one, created Hearts best other chance and held the ball up really well all match. He's 6'1", 28 years old and scored 24 goals last season in the league we play in. I suspect he'd have cost way less than either Lammers or Dessers too. He's also Hearts captain which suggests he has some presence around the dressing room too. Buying the best Scottish players available has worked well for us in the past. Shankland's experience of our league, ultimately the one we need to win every season, could have made him a real asset. It's all moot, but I'm a t a loss to what our football department saw in some of our summer signings but didn't see in Shankland or indeed Nisbet. As for yesterday I thought it was going to be one of those days we've become so used to in recent seasons. That it wasn't might be very important, or might be a blip, time will tell. Hearts tactics were so defensive, it was a grim watch. I don't think Mr Naismith will be in the job for long if that's what his side are displaying every week. We huffed and puffed but didn't look like blowing them down until we did. It was a better performance than many we've seen this season, Clement has improved us, but ultimately it's the same players and there's only so much you can do with them. A fully fit Cantwell and Danilo will make a difference, it was also good to see Dowell make the bench, if Lawrence and him can stay fit then who knows. Even with that we need more goals in our team. If only there was a proven goalscorer in our league we could consider...

I gave it to Cantwell, he kept driving us forward and was the one creative spark while on. It's funny how we all see the games differently. I thought Davies was given a torrid time by Shankland, who constantly got the ball ahead of him, held it up and laid it off while Davies seemed to be a yard behind him.

Have Celtic banned English and McLaughlin? I didn't know that, very interesting. I see the 'flags' story is the lead on the BBC Scotland web page this lunchtime. How it's even 'news' is beyond me, far less the leading story. Who cares what flags they choose to wave. Another bizarre editorial decision.

Back in the late 80s and early 90s Rangers used to train in public places, like West Of Scotland Cricket ground and Jordanhill College grounds. You could go along and watch them and I occasionally would. I witnessed a bounce game once where you'd have sworn Peter Huistra was the finest football player on the planet. His close control, touch and dribbling were literally unbelievable, he simply couldn't be dispossessed. The speed with which he'd make a fool of anyone stupid enough to try and tackle him was incredible. Mikhailachenko and Trevor Steven played in that match too and were close in ability, but Huistra was simply outstanding. Come a Saturday though Huistra was a nearly player. He'd some very good games, and some good moments in games but he wasn't the player I saw in training. Professional sport is 90% ability and 10% mentality. If you don't have that final 10% the other 90% isn't enough. Barker, I suspect, is similar. I think Matondo is another one. It's why so many talented young players simply don't make it.