buster.

The current trend seems to be a general increase in 'trouble' or anti-social behaviour at the football (I'd class trouble as violence and A-SB as other) and it wouldn't surprise me greatly if as you say the Scottish Government discussed/try to implement more ineffective legislation that would actually make matters worse. What should be pushed for within or at the edges of the independent commission is getting rid of the current unworkable legislation that has the Polis more interested in song lyrics and videos. Disband the 'Thought Police' Dept., get rid of the police spindoctors, do your job and take responsibility where necessary instead of making up excuses.

It was also too late. Forethought, intelligence gathering and (contingent) planning etc.,should have made '10 minute crisis meeting' unnecessary. On various levels Police Scotland doesn't seem to be doing a reasonable job and too much of their money is allocated towards spindoctors instead of getting their act together. The legislators have failed with their cack-handed and discrimitory laws that the police and judiciary struggle to use.

Some amount of work has gone into this. Very funny in places ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t59qOjN9Pq8

Rooney, a man whose bank account outweighs his talent. At times has been a fantastic player but seemed to peak early, regress and drift in an out of form....never really becoming the player some thought he might.

A one season ban from the SC is I think merited, realistic and as far as I think it will go (might well be a lesser punishment). Stand or stadium closures in the SC might not effect them for several seasons so a simple ban would be served next season and would send a message regards the seriousness of what happened (never known a SC Cup ban in my puff). They won the Cup and the European place that goes with it in the 90 minutes of play. I wouldn't be for touching that given the SFA's share in responsibility. Bear in mind that the draw for European qualifers is on the 20th of June and I wouldn't imagine any commission will be reporting until after that. We'll get fined aswell.

Stubbs probably sees himself working in England and doesn't feel the need to ingratiate himself to the usual suspects so keenly.

Changing ever-more ingrained attitudes is a very difficult task. First step on a long and rocky road is to push general awareness and start a discussion/argument. This statement, for example subtley points to Rod Petrie as a man with an important dual responsibility who is also guilty of difiance and indifference as Rangers players are attacked by Hibs fans under SFA security magmt.

Modern society prefers spin to taking responsibility or at least the former is always tried before the latter is contemplated. You could understand it or 'wear it' in some areas but the Polis isn't one of them.

Re. Salmond On the first page of this thread.

I had presumed without any base in expert knowledge that this type of action might be taken after criminal proceedings dependent on findings. It's Interesting and hopefully good to see it come so soon.

".......It remains my intention to ensure that Sports Direct is legally and financially held accountable for its failures." Dave King October 27th 2015 He meant what he was saying.

Tbh D'art, I don't think the important issue here is security. I'm not saying the attacks on our players aren't important but presuming that the measures put in place and/or the actual reaction from security were simply very poor and inadequate. IMO the important is the underlying issues which you and others have already touched upon over the weekend. The issues that mean these type of incidents on whatever scale will almost certainly happen again. Over and above the usual football rivalry we have had our problems over the past few years which have been jumped upon by our main rivals in a metaphorical call to arms to fans of other clubs so as to focus on and squeeze Rangers out every which way they can.....This has been magnified with creative use of social media. The other main polarizing factor has been political and the lingering legacy of the referendum campaign. Pointing this out is one thing, trying to address the matter in a constructive manner is at this point in time next to impossible.

I don't think the standard statement would have registered. Having players attacked on the pitch and the reaction to it has been sad but fairly predictable. A reaching of a 'line in the sand' of sorts that has been coming. There is an undercurrent of hatred that is now going beyond the normal football rivalry levels, is becoming more widespread and manifests itself with people in roles of responsibility attempting to downplay attacks on players and many general supporters today online trying to deny it even happened.....and when faced with video evidence trying to present mitigating factors. You could argue that parts of the statement further polarizes matters but there comes a time when a stand has to be made and you have to try and change the debate from what is relatively comfortable for the 'other side' into one that starts down a road to get to the underlying problems.

There is already clear proof that attacks took place. What was clear from the NL incident was that the attack didn't actually result in bodily harm to a Celtic official because the offender seemed so slip onto his bahookie. ie. the footage already availbale from Saturday re. attack on Wallace is sufficient but perhaps not so well broadcast. It is from a distance but does offer conclusive proof.

May 2011 Neil Lennon gets attacked First Minister Alex Salmond said: "This sort of behaviour is utterly unacceptable. "The Joint Action Group formed after the recent football summit is developing the eight-point plan to present to ministers before the start of the new season to tackle all issues of violence and bigotry in relation to football, because we cannot have the safety of individuals endangered by such mindless incidents, and our national game tarnished." http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-13368945

In many ways the general reaction is an extension of the polarized referendum debate and a reflection of how it lingers. Contrast the reaction to that of the attack on Neil Lennon.

It really homes in on Petrie, his responsibilities, actions and lack of actions. Here you have the Hibs Chairman and SFA Vice Pres. who is wearing a double hat of responsibility outright refusing to call attacks on Rangers players disgraceful when given the opportunity by journalists. His attitiude and tone was of difiance. He then subsequently doesn't call or instruct anyone else in his club to call Rangers to inquire of the well-being of our players. Difiance and indifference in such circumstances from someone in authority at both Hibs and the SFA paints a very clear picture of the problem that confronts our club and support. When the people who should be actively looking to solve problems are very much part of them they should resign.

Journalists having a go isn't surprising, it's a reflex to protect their profession because they don't like being accused of spinning agendas. However, it goes on a great deal. The fourth estate are a poor lot these days.

The board seem to be looking to sieze the bull by the horns and take the opportunity to drive the debate into a direction that reflects what actually happened and hopefully later delve into the underlying problems that make this an ongoing sore and not a one off.

Got it wrong Tears and One Trophy (which he defiantly presents to the media in link below)

We are only individual fans and we will see what the next few days bring in terms of further or secondary reactions from the club/fans groups and an indication of how they are looking to play this. If you want to start to change something that is entrenched then you don't repeat the standard reaction that will be expected and get us nowhere. At the sametime if it was to become clear that a real alternative isn't coming from the club then you have to be clear to the authorities/other clubs that there will be consequences for a lack of reason/proportionality in their reaction. That said, the SFA will almost certainly try and push this into the long grass with an enquiry of sorts. The Police should be making a lot of arrests this week. Successful and powerful pressure groups heavily influence what is to be debated and denounced in the public/media and we suffer from being in opposition to a side that has them both directly and indirectly, whilst we don't really have any.........Hence when an opportunity arises through undeniable events, we should look to take it.

I just think that yesterday highlights the underlying issues (see articles by Frankie, D'art, Johnny McFarlane) and that there is currently an opportunity to publicly highlight them and have them seriously debated beyond our own messageboards. I'm not saying it will sort everything out, it won't but until some of what is and has been going on is publicy highlighted and exposed, it will fester, grow and end up in further consequences.

When Frankie said that 'we need to box clever' he was obviously right. You'd hope that the club and the fans could allign themselves in an attempt to get the underlying problem out into the public debate and contemplated. Ultimately individuals will decide if they want to attend away games or not and the calling for boycotts by a fans group at this stage isn't IMO boxing clever,.... if you want to even try to get to the fundamantal problem. We need to change the area of public debate around the issue.

Has there been any reaction from fans groups ?.....or is it that the transition process/ new group isn't yet in a position to be able to do so ?