RANGERRAB

You keep missing out the obvious Rab, just follow the money.

 

Who stood to personally profit from the sale to Whyte?

 

The Rangers tie wearing Donald Muir who just a matter of days after our "sale" moved to liquidate his own extremely cash rich service company which had the nice little side effect of hiding the amount of his ill gotten gains.

Just how much Muir was involved is another question which needs answered. And did he benefit financially from this sale?

Remember too though he was not an employee of LBG and may not ultimately have been responsible for the decision to sell to Whyte. It was however LBG who insisted he be on the Rangers board with the aim of debt reduction

Our business model required us to bring in £10m extra a season that we didn't have. We've still not rectified this that's why the bank got a hold of us. Murray wanted rid of us that's why he sold to Whyte. LBG's only part in it was they saw a way to get their £20m back imo

I know of a certain other club in the same city who have/had a similar business model but I don't/didn't see their bank doing likewise.How much are they in debt to the co-op bank via overdrafts and soft loans? Rangers debts were falling year on year with AJ as chairman. Costs were being reduced. Again, I ask did LBG force SDM to sell to Whyte and for what reason ? Are LBG seriously telling us they thought this a good piece of business given Whyte's business history which seemed to be well known about at the time of the sale?

And let's not forget the bigger picture here which was MIH's £750m debt. Why were the bank so focused on the much smaller Rangers debt of £18m ?

Rab, I'm not defending or criticising LBG, I'm saying that Manus Fullerton wasn't even involved, far less calling the shots; there was no anti Rangers cabal at work and no-one was "found-out".

 

If you seriously think a partly state owned FTSE 100 bank would consider crystallising a £750m debt with no hope of recovering anything like that amount from the assets, just so that a couple of senior employees could pursue their personal agendas with a Scottish football team, then you'll believe anything.

How can you be so sure he wasn't involved? Did he tell you himself?

I want to know if LBG forced SDM to sell to Whyte and for what reason.

The reason we ended up in the position we're in was down to gross mismanagement of the company by Murray, Whyte and this new lot

Whilst I might not always agree with criticisms of SDM and the current board I can understand at times why individuals form these opinions.

Regards Whyte the only question I want answered is how the hell he got Rangers in the first place. Despite warnings from just everyone from the likes of AJ, Paul Murray, and Jeff Randall about Whyte's business history who on this earth thought it a good idea he should get Rangers? Spare me the SDM being duped stuff too. I don't believe for one minute he willingly sold to Whyte.

I'm very familiar with AJ's frustrations regarding LBG. My point is a narrow one: there was no "Celtic Minded" conspiracy and Manus Fullerton wasn't involved with the Rangers FC relationship.

 

If you've read anything from AJ which contradicts that specific point, please do share it.

I cannot quote directly anything AJ said about LBG during his time as Rangers chairman but he was quite scathing about them during the period of time up to Whyte's takeover.

Why were LBG so keen for Whyte to take over Rangers? Did they threaten to withdraw all credit to MIH if this deal was not agreed by SDM? If true not exactly the actions of a bank acting in the best interests of one of its business customers wouldnt you agree?

And Messrs Fullerton and Kane didnt exactly seem to hang around too long at LBG after Whyte arrived did they? Were they found out?

And of course Mr Fullerton did find himself some new employment did he not ? Doing some low level paper-gathering for SPL lawyers Harper McLeod in their attempts to strip Rangers of titles during the dual contracts fiasco. I'm sure his time at LBG must have been very useful indeed in that respect.

But never mind. You go on defending these people all you want

He means Manus Fullerton and he is 100% wrong. That individual did not run LBG's Scottish Business Division and would have had no legitimate influence in any decisions relating to Rangers / SDM. That is a fact.

If you get the opportunity then read some of the statements made by the then Rangers chairmanAJ.

As you always ask for them from others, Rab, it's only fair that you provide us with the names and some evidence to back up those claims, yes?

The names of those alleged to have been behind all of this before and after whtye got Rangers are well known.Dont you think something was going on? Too much coincidence for my liking. And the names of the individuals allegedly involved doest surprise me.Well known Rangers haters

Personally I don't mate.

 

I believe an organised group were out to harm us but of course I have no proof. That's just my guess.

IMO the whole thing was co-ordinated from LBG(as I've already mentioned) & HMRC standing back & allowing Whyte to acquire Rangers (despite the fact he already owed them millions) then proceding to allow him to run up millions in unpaid PAYE/NI.

Oh and not to mention an EBT tax bill starting at £24m to which HMRC werent entitled to either at which they've failed twice at their own internal appeals processes (FTTT & UTTT).

Call me a cynic but I fully believe this was all being orchestrated by a small group of individuals with the aim of causing maximum financial damage to Rangers as SDM abandoned ship.

He once let McClelland take a fall for him, he also claimed Martin Bain "ran" our club "day to day" but of course Murray was still boss until the bank took over.

And we know who were in charge of LBG's Scottish business division at the time don't we?

Rangers debts at that time were falling (they were circa £30m at one point) and were a fraction of the overall MIH debt. So why were the bank so focused on Rangers debt ?

Go figure and please don't give me the 'he wasn't anywhere near our account'. He could easily have a got a lacky to do it for him

Chance we will get Celtic in the next round now and will be humiliated. Would have preferred a harder tie myself.

No guarantee we will beat St Johnstone is there?

As has been shown, we could absolutely use sterling but perhaps not in a currency union. Although, that one could have been a bluff to bully the voters. You can't see the cards if you don't call.

 

EU membership - no chance we would be rejected, the problem would be the conditions - like adoption of the Euro and Schengen. There was far more chance of not being in the EC in say 10 years time, by the no vote winning. Middle England are more and more adopting the opinion that the UK should leave.

 

NATO would be a complete formality. That's just a red herring.

 

 

 

This is where you're arguing against yourself. A lot of the no votes was because some of this *couldn't* be promised. There is nothing to renege on. The devolved powers *were* promised and the impression was given that this was possible and even guaranteed. One thing is for sure is that the new Scottish parliament would have tried it's hardest for those issues, can the same be said of Westminster?

Ok then when all major UK party leaders said there would be no currency union they were just kidding on. I believe you.

As for the EU membership you require approval of all EU countries. The Spanish prime minister specifically said Spain would not approve an independent Scotland's membership due to potential issues it could have with the Basque region and Catalonia.I believe Belgium and Italy were of the same opinion.As for the EU legal advice that never was?

As a condition for NATO membership you need to be prepared to have nuclear weapons and deploy a first strike policy. The SNP were committed to getting rid off Trident so unless they were replacing how could an independent Scotland get into NATO?

Quite frankly Salmond and the SNP were going around making up all sorts of nonsense before the referendum knowing as long as they got the vote there was no going back and they could do whatever they liked. Many people saw this and voted accordingly.

You've got to laugh at the YES'ers saying Westminister will renege on its promises for that's exactly what they'd have done had they won last Friday.

Would they have got sterling ? EU membership? NATO membership? Doubtful

If they reneged on any of them would there have been a re-run of the referendum? not a chance. One thing about that referendum was that if they'd won there was no going back whatever happened

Whoever reaches what they consider a satisfactory agreement with them.

Just can't see it. Can you ?

And why are Laxey increasing their shareholding in Rangers. Surely there are easier ways for them to make money. Or are they doing this for somebody?

They've just drastically lowered their average price per share probably making it easier for them to be shifted in the medium term.

Shifted by whom though?

I don't believe this took place

 

wallace is talking garbage and at least one player would have asked how the second half of the season's wages were going to be funded.

If this meeting did take place I cannot believe for one minute no serious questions were asked of him by anyone at that meeting.

The recent share issue literally raised peanuts for us to stumble on for another couple of months. What happens after that?

Did no one ask?

Wallace addressed the players in the home dressing room at Ibrox on Friday?

Why were they at ibrox? Thought they only went to Ibrox on match days when at home? Weren't they training at MP on Friday?

What respectable club would seriously want someone like Lennon as their team manager?

'The £3million raised by the recent share issue had stabilised the Ibrox cash crisis'

yes but for how long? One month? Two months ?

Unless a major injection of capital is forthcoming very soon we've big problems ahead.

I wonder what well known Shellik fan Hamza Yousef MSP and Rangers-hater lawyer Aamar Anwar make of this?

Had this been a Rangers player I'msure they'd have had plenty to say by now

Surely if an offence had been committed the SFA have to wait to see what action the police take?

This board are finished. Anyone can see that.The share price has plummeted and they cannot attract investment as we head towards a funding shortage.

The AGM cannot come quick enough

Gunslinger essentially said the same as Hildy yesterday and I asked him how this can be done business-wise. There have been quite many calls for heads and boards and whatnot for months. When you ask people how this will come about - boycot or not - the answers become ever more vague.

Shareprice at a low will get those in power to act - if they are looking after their money right now. I doubt that many do though. At the end of the day, unless someone with the money at the ready buys up shares galore or backs the club (somehow) openly - be it Ashley or King - and thus also gives stockmarket'ters the idea that we are doing well from then on, there won't be any changes before an AGM. And if that happens, who is to say that whoever gets elected is someone with real "power"?

 

As in: all this talk about "regime change" is fine and well. If there is no mechanism and actual possibility to do it right now, going on about it as the only way forward is pretty fruitless.

the idea some seem to have that they can force change in a company they don't own is ridiculous in the extreme.Changes will be forthcoming no doubt about it. Time is up for this board unless they attract investment(as they said they would) and very quickly.

By all means don't attend matches (or 'starve them out' as it's put on here) if that's how you feel but it will only be Rangers who suffer and the damage may be long lasting or permanent. I don't want that.

Boardroom change at Ibrox is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

It's regime change that is required.

changing regime is not easy is it?

Under these circumstances in any normal company you'd expect there to be major boardroom changes.

If the various fans groups used this share price collapse as ammunition instead of the usual time-worn allegations we might get somewhere.

What and spoil Wasp@ night, I'll let him go through the various threads on the continued raping of our club, should he wish?

He should just look in the section called 'fiction'....