RANGERRAB

McCoist is going nowhere voluntarily. New players will need to be recruited in January if we're to get promoted but will funds be made available & would anyone trust McCoist to spend that money wisely? I wouldnt.

Its a pity those who constantly go on about the board cant do likewise about the football management side of the club.

I'm not disputing that, but it is a bill the Administrators and the Liquidators have recognised.

And when HMRC do finally realise they're getting hee haw what happens then?

Do we all go back to where we once were and live happily ever after?

Or will there be some serious litigation? This f@ckin phantom EBT Tax Bill put oldco out of business and cost Rangers tens of millions of pounds. Will there be some sort of attempt to recover this money?

HMRC became the major creditor the day the submitted the bill for the EBT's.

A Bill to which they had no entitlement

What was it he actually did ? Does anyone know?

Are the police actually still investigating where these tax leaks came from?

Regarding the EBT case you really just refuse to listen or accept reason Rab - it is tiresome. HMRC may have lost the case but that doesn't mean they weren't entitled to chase for it - in fact, they got a very small win on a documentation point. That alone tells you they were well within their right to chase it. They followed proper procedure and their own protocols in the chasing of the tax case. They had, successfully, reached agreement with other clubs such as Arsenal and Chelsea on the exact same thing. The only question that really should be asked is why they didn't accept SDM's offer to settle.

 

But their process being flawed ? Nope, definitely not. Just because you don't win doesn't mean the process isn't flawed.

 

Where is the evidence that LBG forced the sale to Whyte ? Genuine question because I see all of this "they were going to pull funding to MIH if he didn't sell us" etc - but do we have quotes surrounding that ? Not disputing it but genuinely cant recall seeing anyone involved make those remarks.

Craig - what reason is it I refuse to accept about HMRC's case? Let me explain

EBT's were perfectly legal tax avoidance if run properly and the one(or ones) used by Rangers have been proven to be just that. do you accept that? Thousands of UK companies had them until they ended in 2010.

Do you think HMRC were entitled to chase eye-watering figures quoted like £75m based on a 'documentation point' as you say? A figure which would put many companies out of business. As you say they've only won a 'small win' based on a 'documentation point' which gave them no justification in pursuing the sums quoted IMO.

Then there's the question why Arsenal and others were allowed to settle and Rangers weren't. I believe someone, somewhere was influencing these decisions who had an interest in damaging Rangers.I believe many of us have views on who that individual was and how his party have slumped in the polls in Scotland may not be entirely unconnected.

As for LBG I cannot accept they are blameless either. We need an answer as to whether they forced the sale to Whyte or not. And did they threaten to withdraw all bank credit to MIH if the sale didn't go ahead? If so why? What was their reasoning behind that? And did Whyte get all overdraft facilities withdrawn when he took over?

Not exactly the actions of a bank supporting a business is it? Especially Rangers whose bank debt had almost halved in the two years prior to the sale to Whyte.

If you don't accept my viewpoint then start reading some of things AJ was quoted as saying around the time of the sale to Whyte. PM too. You'll find I think they very much had suspicions regards a number of individuals at the time.And they were both proved absolutely correct IMO.

LBG knew where it was going, ie. an insolvency event and weren't going to allow an overdraft to build-up.

They knew where it was going so they allowed Whyte to take over ????

The actions of both LBG & HMRC need thoroughly investigated throughout all of this.

LBG effectively forced oldco out of business by forcing sale to Whyte.

Whyte,already owing HMRC £4m prior to ownwership, gets allowed to take over and build up even more tax arrears.

Then there's the EBT tax bill, so flawed in didnt even stand up to their own internal appeals.

You couldnt make some of this up..............

There was a podcast of both Trayner and Jackson discussing the fact they informed the SFA of Whyte's non payment of tax. Podcast mysteriously disappeared.

 

Whyte told Regan as much during a dinner in December. Very soon after Liewell demanded we pay the tickets for the late December game at the piggery up front. Regan and Liewell knew what was coming. In all probability so did Doncaster.

remember too that when Whyte got Rangers LBG very kindly withdrew the overdraft facility. Didnt exactly do much to help did they?

Defending Ally ? come on Walter. Have you ever watched Rangers much lately?

Very possibly.

And apparently took no action which I found very strange indeed

They may well have noticed Zappa, but what would you expect them to do then?

 

HMRC knew anyway; they couldn't tell the press or the SFA and they clearly already wanted RFC to re-bank.

I believe the SFA did know Whyte wasn't paying over PAYE/NI to HMRC. JT and/or KJ told them.

The bank had an opportunity to recover its money from a business which was in very real peril, without having to do so via the forced sale of Its iconic stadium.

 

It's a no brainer.

By forcing its sale to a charlatan like Whyte ??? You're haven' a laugh here aren't you?

I think the time has now come for both the Easdales & Irvine to go.

It's becoming one thing after another. Both are simply a magnet for bad publicity which Rangers can do without.

Anyone wanting to understand LBG's attitude towards the sale of RFC, merely needs to consider the potential PR and commercial disaster which would have unfolded if they'd been in the position of having to put us into Administration and ultimately cause the sale of Ibrox under the Bond and Floating Charge they held over the Club's assets.

 

Remember, there was a massive contingent liability hanging over the Club at the time, putting off all buyers, as there was no way that RFC could have traded out of the situation if HMRC had won. SDM had been trying to sell for years and NO-ONE was interested.

 

So, £18m would have been a rounding error compared to financial impact that PR nightmare would have caused LBG.

 

Rather than ask why LBG were so keen on Whyte, ask why were they so keen for someone, anyone, to buy us and clear the bank debt?

 

Follow the money indeed.

LBG remained Rangers bankers after Whyte took over.

Had the BTC been lost then it was no fault of LBG was it?

Was it not the case that SDM was told if he didn't sell to Whyte all bank credit to MIH would be withdrawn?

That doesn't sound to me like the actions of a bank trying to help a struggling business.

Why were they so keen for SDM to sell Rangers to virtually anybody, even Whyte, whose background should have been well known about?

I dont think the latter is possible Rab - as soon as LNS refers to them as "productions" he is referring to items seized and lodged as evidence by the prosecuting authority. (Remember we are only talking about the leaks made available to BBC Scotland not The Rangers Tax case)

 

Thats about in a nutshelll Zap - they appear to have at some point been removed from a secure area storing evidence - presumably whilst in the custody and care of HMRC.

 

Some have suggested they could have been leaked by the Rangers legal defence team - but they would only be supplied with photo copies of the original documents and Im pretty certain LNS would have made the distinction between "productions" and "photocopies of productions" had that been the case.

I wouldn't rule anything out D'art regards these leaks.

Remember our chum Fullerton who worked for LBG ?

Didn't he leave and then get a job with Harper McLeod who were investigating the SPL dual contracts nonsense?

Far be it from me to suggest anything of course

That's right, I remember you previously writing about the term "productions" and it's meaning in this case.

 

So that would basically narrow it down to the leak coming from within HMRC or within a legal office?

A well known Glasgow legal firm springs to mind............

so why didnt King wait 24hrs when he would have had proof of funds before he made this offer?

Wait a minute

 

So are you saying that this was all a 'cunning plan' devised by a 'cabal', from Reid to Fullerton (Celtic-Minded) to take out or seriously 'wound' their arch-enemy on their quest for World (or SPL) Domination ?

 

Tell me you don't believe anything along those lines, please Rab

Tell me:- Do you know what these people think about Rangers ?

Opportunity, as in 'opportunist mechanism'.

 

It's obviously not in Lloyds interests to let the Murray group go down.

The 'threat' effectively applied to Rangers although it was made in the knowledge that it extremely unlikely that the IBC would be able to further resist.

 

Asking you same question.....

Why do you think LBG were so keen for CW to get Rangers ?

CW getting Rangers greatly benefited one club in Scotland.What happened next was inevitable.It would financially cripple Rangers for years to come.

It also allowed 'them' relatively easy access to CL money for years to come via easier qualifiers due to Reid's cosy relationship with Platini. They could dominate Scottish football for the foreseeable future.

My turn for question now: Who ran LBG's Scottish business division at that time?

18M pounds sterling and what might have been coming down the road can't be considered "small beer". The Murray Group numbers were much greater but didn't seem to have such 'opportunities' and hence, you can't compare them in the way you seem to be doing,... apples and carrots.

 

However, by hook or by crook, an opportunity was found at Ibrox and the bank would seem to have benifitted more than most from it's realisation.

 

'Follow the Money'................

opportunity ? LOL

Was it not if SDM didnt sell to Whyte all bank credit was to be withdrawn from MIM?

opportinity? LOL Blackmail?

I think you have to go back further and to the alleged threat from the bank (direct or via agent) that they would force insolvency if the CW deal wasn't signed.

So why were LBG so keen for Whyte to get Rangers then?

The Rangers bank debt was small beer compared to the MIH bank debt

oh it was insolvent al right thanks to whyte but that was allegedly fraudulent and it was retrievable.

And hopefully we will see the individuals in the organisations who enabled Whyte to acquire Rangers brought to justice instead of the four lackeys lifted last week

it most certainly would. because i suspect we could have made good on all debts assuming we win the big tax case in the end.

 

in a proper administration.

i.e. the oldco was never insolvent

Who are the other main unsecured creditors of the oldco?

I thought unsecured creditors got hee-haw basically yet it says DK could get £5.7m?????