Darthter

Yet, that is exactly what is happening with Miller & Wallace - what has gone on in the past is clouding many fans judgements.... I think criticism is due, but not at the Directors.....not at the Manager....not at the players....but at the Club as a whole!!! I think it is only right that the fans show their displeasure, after all they are the ones putting their hands in their pockets week after week. I think that the "We deserve better" banners are actually VERY accurate and hopefully EVERYONE connected with the club takes note.

The bottom line in all of this is that Miller & Wallace over stepped a line, and as a result face disciplinary action. Exactly the same as ANY other workplace. Yes they are 2 long serving, Senior players but that doesn't give them free reign to do & say whatever they want. Also, both have been previously linked to similar incidents in the past year. I've seen a lot of posts over the past 24hrs, blindly supporting both players. IMHO this is wrong. The club cannot ignore a players behaviour simply because they have been there for a number of years, or because they stayed through the Admin period etc. Also remember that neither player actually PLAYED in the game - Wallace wasn't even in the squad. Also in recent month both players could only be classed as "Fringe" players - Miller is unable to hold down a regular spot (since his last suspension for over-stepping the mark), and Wallace has been injured since Sept, but has unable to get back into the team since his return to fitness. On top of all this, we don't know exactly what went on. It's also worth remembering that Employment law can be a right Royal pain in the backside, therefore any actions that are taken HAVE to be justified. You can't simply just suspend an employee for the "fun" of it. A case will have to be built via the investigation, that will get put in front of each player & their representatives (Union, Agent, Lawyer). I would say it is rare that if an investigation isn't upheld, that the employee returns to their job & carries on as normal - it would make for a rather uncomfortable atmosphere.....yet Miller did just that only a few months ago!!!! It's hard to believe that there wasn't some sort of ill feeling towards him (& Wallace possibly) within the dressing room.

Not really....The club is currently being propped up by director investment......so what happens if many fans get their way & the Board walks???? It's all well & good to demand that King covers the shortfall, but ultimately can he or would he???

....but he IS the manager just now.

Obviously there is a limit.....but we MUST aim high & be prepared to spend what is required. It's no use bringing in a mid-table SPFL manager, then giving him Millions of pounds to spend on players. Brenda wasn't enticed by a massive transfer kitty, considering all the cash they have pulled in over the past 5 years. He has essentially worked with what was there - especially last season. He has since brought in some big money players, who have not exactly set the heather alight. A clear plan must be put to any manager - You want a huge transfer budget, bring in huge amounts of cash (via Europe, cups, wheeling/dealing etc).

If that is what is required, then that is what must be done - It's down to the Board to find a way to make it happen. If we want to be the "Simply the best" again, we need to start showing that with our Managerial appointments. The playing staff will follow....

Remember the old adage....no smoke without fire. Both Miller & Wallace's names have been linked to dressing room unrest on more than one occasion in recent times....and both allegedly suspended as a result before. Murty showed faith in Miller the last time after PC left, the weekends events would appear to show Miller throwing that faith right back at the manager. Rangers as a club have always promoted Respect as a key virtue, yet its apparent that some players don't respect the "chain of command" at the club. Murty is the 1st team boss, so regardless of any players views on his ability etc, they MUST show him respect. Failure to do that should result in disciplinary action, regardless of who the player is. Over recent years, there have been a number of problems that have remained the same, no matter who was in charge, or who was playing. To find out the cause of those problems, you need to identify the constants - The Board has changed, multiple managers, several squad "re-builds"....Miller & Wallace have remained. I'm not saying that they alone are the root cause of every issue we are facing on the pitch, but they are a constant.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.... The board have to go all out to bring in a top notch manager/coach. If they don't, chances are we will be having the same discussion this time next year (or by Xmas). If it means blowing the majority of the transfer budget on the manager/coach, then so be it. Ceptic, tried the "up & coming" route, which didn't wield the results they wanted, so they dived right in & paid out the big bucks & so far it has worked very well for them. Our board MUST do the same. It is the DoF's job to have a running list of suitable/preferred candidates - he's now had plenty time to compile that list. Identify the best candidate & co get him, no excuses.

Bates was/is as decent player...nothing more. There is potential for him to develop in the future & that is where the gamble lies. He's not worth paying anywhere in the region of the £7.5k pw that is being quoted. So do the club take a gamble & offer £3-3.5K with a 4yr contract in the hope of further development, or do they keep the wage low, and the term shorter & reduce that risk IF he doesn't develop as hoped?? Whos to say that he WILL develop into a better player than he is now - it's a tricky one. It would appear that the club opted to mitigate the risk somewhat, and go for the lower wage/contract term option. Bates' agent thought differently with the outcome being he moves on. I think the club did the right thing, in not being held to ransom. I don't think Bates ever blew anyone away with his performances, but he did pretty well overall. The other concern for Bates is that While Murty tends to favour him just now, there might be a different manager next season who has different views....

I believe that overall, the standard of refs has probably dropped....on the flip side though, their every move & decision is now being caught by camera. This allows for continued repeats/reviews of every incident by fans & the media - the ref on the other hand only see things once, and are therefore at a disadvantage compared to fans & pundits etc.

IF he has been emailed it, there will be a trail for the police to follow (IF it has been reported) On the flip side, should it prove to be true, I don't think anyone on here would be able to defend it in any way....

Only IF he starts performing well & scoring goals....otherwise, he will get chalked up as another dud.

I think, the 1st thing that C1872 has to do is have a clear agenda on what they want to tackle. I can imagine the conversation at the moment: C1872: "Dave, the fans have some issues you need to address..." DK: "no problem, what are they?" C1872: "Well, a couple of the guys don't like the away strip, some folk think the pies are too greasy & the chips soggy. Someone mentioned the blue paint on the gates was the wrong shade. The DR printed some shitty articles. A number of fans don't like G Murty. When can we expect these and all the others to be fixed???" DK: ????? C1872 must identify those issue that are most important, analyse & research full, then put it to the board & include suggestions on how they can be rectified & how C1872 can help if required. To do that, doesn't require a board presence....just access to board members, and the weight of their shareholding behind them.

Simpler solution than accent....just get them to pronounce Loch, Milngavie, Sauchiehall St & Strathavon - if pronounced properly, they're in!!!

what about the British embassy....does that mean you could play for Scotland, England, N. Ireland or Wales???

just coz your a millionaire, politician, QC or ex-Military, doesn't automatically mean you have something productive to offer a PLC Board....

I think the main problem appears to be a lack of clear direction.... There was the initial push for a notable shareholding, now that they have it no-one really knows what to do with it. I actually agree that a fans rep on the board could be a good thing - but it must be an appointment that can "serve both masters". Also C1872 (and the fans) must be crystal clear on the expected objectives. Any C1872 rep is there to put forward the views of that shareholder, not to dictate how the club is run.

The granny rule really is pushing it....however, we aren't blessed (in recent years) with an abundance of Local talent who can compete at International level. Therefore we need to exploit all options available. The biggest problem I have seen with Scotland over recent years is a reliance on "old heads" & "experience".....the likes of Broonaldo, Mulgrew etc have failed to get the team anywhere in 20 years, why should it suddenly change now. I think a fresh page is required for the team sheet....and a fresh approach to team selection, and I think it would probably help Eck, if he basically came out and said "the decks getting cleared, experienced players have got us nowhere, we're starting with new/fresh/young faces & building for the future."

I would argue that he's not exactly set the heather alight with us yet. I've not seen much to suggest he's going to be an outstanding player for us....

An important point of note: The Boardroom of a Football club, is not a "football" environment - it is 100% business orientated and not a suitable place for "Shug fae Larkhall", just because a fans group demanded he be there. ANY potential Board member should bring something to the table. If C1872 were able to get a representative on-board, it must be the right person who can not only represent C1872, but also bring something practical to the regular running of the club. Also, any Rep that C8172 got on the Board would still be bound by various confidentiality agreements and would most likely still anger fans when unable to answer questions/concerns in specific detail. Does the current shareholding empower C1872 to propose a new Board member??? If it does, that would be a better way to go IMHO. Pick & propose the right candidate, then reply on the democratic voting power of the shareholders. With regard to shareholding....a number of folk have commented that they are happy to simply continue to increase the number of shares. What for?? What is the outcome/reason for doing so?? Yes it will input money into the club if purchased via a share issue, but then what?? There is no point having a notable slice of the shares, then not do anything with that.

I think the concern from DK's side is about C1872 having the ability to maintain their percentage shareholding over a longer period, probably following a couple of share issues. If they fail to maintain their shares, whats stopping someone else (with an increased holding) "demanding" a place on the board in C1872's place. I think using the shareholding as the primary bargaining chip, will possibly prevent it happening. They should be pushing the fans side more prominently, with a gentle reminder of the fans shareholding (if that makes sense)

This kinda makes me laugh...He was excellent @ Motherwell, scored a load of goals & decent few against us, and we were allegedly interested in him as a result. He moves to a different team & completely bombs, and now he's not good enough for Us. This is very similar to the Steve Clarke chat - poor record elsewhere, but having a great 1/2 season @ Killie (so far). All of a sudden he's the man to take Rangers forward...

I can kinda see DK's point.... C1872 are pushing for a place on the board, due to their current shareholding. However if that shareholding is reduced, then their claim for a Board position is subsequently reduced.

was that no Di Canio referring to being on £12k a week??? (maybe both)

Winning should always be the number 1 priority....however, you know what football fans are like, we could be winning every game yet folk would complain about the manner it's achieved.