Stimpy

This is the first time I've smiled in feck knows how long. Murray facing the music is a long time coming.

It's going reasonably well mate, another leaflet push on Saturday is on where we hope to reach bears that don't use social media outlets. They can then can pledge by post. The seed is definitely planted, we would/need more info from bears, then it's all about getting more info out of the administrators. As you'd know anyway, there are hurdles to overcome before any legal entity is in place for any kind of share issue.

1500: Disappointed that few Scottish MP's attended. "Biggest crisis affecting the game". 1507: Face of Scottish football changing. 1508: Are members nervous to discuss Rangers? Tough to debate without some people taking issue. 1508: Doesn't excuse it. It deserves to be dealt with sensitively. "There has to be a solution". Inconceivable to imagine Scottish football without Rangers. 1509: No Rangers will impact on SPL's ability to go on. Wider economies for all of Scotland. Perth MP cites example of his own town. Hotels, restaraunts, bars etc etc. 1510: No Rangers, no Sky, no Old Firm. Iterated directly that no Rangers would cancel the contract. 1511: "Will Rangers always survive, is the true knock on small clubs not getting payments?" 1512: Old Firm bring in 190 million pounds, 200 million pounds spent on football, 9000 jobs and Rangers bring in 56 million to Glasgow directly. 1513: Football in a role in the community. 1513: 3.2 million fans, 76 million watch games. Big Business. 1514: Many clubs teetering, uses St Johnstone (surprise) as good example of a club ran well. Mentions Dundee, Livi and Gretna. Implies Hearts. 1515: SPL is different to England (shocking). Market dictates that clubs spend. Clash with falling gates in a competitive entertainment market. 1516: Everyone has to pay their tax. Going forward paying tax has to be paid. Everyone has sent letters on behalf of small businesses asking for special cases to be considered to HMRC. Rangers must be one of them. It's important enough and in a big enough mess. Total disaster. 1517: What Craig Whyte did with Ticketus was appalling. 1518: Issues outstanding, payment to other clubs. Redundancies over next few days. Impact of administration on jobs and careers. 1518: Scottish Govt offers assistance to people losing jobs, contact with administrators. 1519: Scottish Govt offering all help to the Scottish Open, including money. Should this happen to the SPL? 1519: Money in training and grassroots of about 40-50 million. Issues in investing in Scottish football. Sectarian chanting, mentions the legislation. 1520: "I went to the Killie game. Everyone was clear but the legislation was not clear and not workable." 1521: Hope that HMRC work sensibly, secure their liabilites and work with Rangers. 1523: Two broad sets of remarks. One, importance of football clubs as cultural communities and integral parts of communities. Rangers have been a standard bearer for Scotland. A great club, prompted the debate. The most successful club in the world for national titles. It's right we discuss such a great club today. Two, role of money in sport. Transparency in financing and sustainability. 1526: Role of HMRC and government perhaps to look at financing and transparency in football for the future? Clubs are more than businesses. Or to collect taxes from business, no matter how important? 1527: Tax is as important to wider community as football. 1528: Great clubs even need to pay taxes, regret Rangers couldn't pay the £9 million. Also looking at possible tax avoidance. EBT's brought up. 1529: Assurances sought that the minister understands the EBT case and to consider the wider cultural issues HMRC must consider. 1530: Given the reduction of local HMRC staff (sped up by Tories, started by Labour), loss of local knowledge, are the people dealing with Rangers understanding of the financial nexus of Rangers in local economy and other clubs finances and cultural importance. 1531: Does the minister understand how important Rangers is? Is he certain HMRC are? 1532: Particularities in Rangers re: Whyte's running of the club. Emblematic though of problems sport is having with money now. Global marketplace where govt have too little control and insight into the rationale for changes. 1533: Alternative models of ownership needed, govt should be involved. FC United fan owned, transparent. May be the key to the future for policy for govt into ensuring transparency in ownership, management and sustainability. 1534: HMRC have a role but competition organisers should be first whistleblowers. 1535: HMRC must reflect on why clubs were created. Rangers not created to make money but to represent community. HMRC maybe not dealing even handedly, individual cases argue it. In Rangers case, in public eye on the global stage, HMRC must look at wider financial and cultural disbenifits of a Rangers collapse. 1537: Issue a significant one. Provides jobs and stimulus. Feel good factor if a club is successful. Important revenue put in by tax. Over a billion paid by football. 1538: Exchequer acutely aware of the knock on effect of a clubs collapse. 1539: Govt and HMRC have helped clubs meet their obligations. 1539: Can't share specifics on Rangers, customer confidentiality. 1540: Can the exchequer confirm that the exchequer were aware that Rangers had not paid tax since May? 1540: Limits to what can be said. All can be said is HMRC have assured that in cases of this kind debts are given close attention at all times. I'd be surprised if there hadn't been discussion to get payment. Ministerial involvement: Kept informed of significant developments such as court proceedings, HMRC took no advice from ministers, Scottish Govt discussed...HMRC explained to First Minister a customer had problems paying debt and a timescale on when they'd seek administrations. HMRC didn't seek or take advice. 1543: What advice did Salmond offer? 1543: That is not known by the exchequer. 1544: Has HMRC been told of how important Rangers are? Not just a club? 1544: HMRC are aware. 1545: HMRC offers support to all businesses. Allowing business to spread payments past due date. Business payment support service. Help for short term financial difficulties. HMRC will probe repeat requests which highlights problems. 1547: Tax must be paid. Govt committed to levelling playing field for those who pay taxes. Some clubs have a poor payment compliance record. Not payment on profits. PAYE, NI deducted from employees. Using that money to fund business, money which was never theirs. 1549: Not fair on tax payers regardless of why it happens. 1549: No one club should benefit simply because it funds itself through not paying PAYE. 1550: Open sharing of payment plans present in England and Ireland. Being explored in Scotland. 1551: Will HMRC contact other Scottish clubs to see what assistance might be required as a result of Rangers situation? Also will HMRC be able to seek a bond to get money back if tax is not paid? 1551: From April it will be possible. HMRC will listen sympathetically to any approach from another club where it's caused difficulties. Onus is on the club. 1552: How will HMRC reward good businesses? 1553: Should be takes as given that taxes get paid. Football itself gets to grips, difficulties themselves if obligations aren't met. 1555: Assured that HMRC have the skills to understand the local issues. 1557: Assure that HMRC is working with the administrators and creditors to get the best solution to creditors and the club. Administration is there to save the club. From elsewhere:)

I agree with this. There is also the fact that during busy times it's easier to ban the new guy whose opinion is different to the majority rather than hand out warnings to established posters. Not saying that is the right way of moderating but it's the easiest way. Each forum has its own characteristics that will suit the user, and of course the user has to find the forum where they're most comfortable with.

Post from someone who works in the media: I'm hearing that Sky were told not to ask about the Ticketus deal in exchange for the interview and that Mr Whyte did not want to do the interview but was advised to by his PR team. The poster isn't the sort to start pishy rumours. Take what you want from it:D

I'm for the Orange Walkers Park. In all seriousness, I would go for it but not until Whyte is in jail being raped by Buba.

Bastards. I'd do it myself if the shoe was on the other foot but hearing it and seeing it would be too much. Should I go to the away game at the piggery, I will be wearing earmuffs as we will be sharing the boat with them:(

Got that in email today. Just want this sorted out asap as it's doing my nut in. Never been so glad to live in an area where no tims venture. I couldn't stick their gloating.

Done:) Good stuff Forlan

This is just gauging the interest of the support mate. If the support is ready then I dare say high net worth individuals will come in and work with the support. Respected businessmen with with the resources to carry it through will be key. Lots of hurdles to to overcome at this early stage.

We're testing the water at present mate. DD schemes have been discussed and you're not the only bear tonight to suggest this. All info and ideas will be shared over time mate.

Guys and gals, Website designed to measure the level of interest in fans investing and and how much fans are willing to donate: Thousands of Rangers fans have been asking what they can do help save Rangers Football Club. Today the three main supporter organisations are launching http://www.SaveRangers.com which gives fans the opportunity to pledge their own money to invest and save Rangers Football Club. We invite all Rangers fans to sign up and state how much money they would invest if the opportunity for meaningful fan ownership occurs in future. The three groups call on all potential owners to note that we will no longer tolerate the single owner model for Rangers. We also demand transparency in the clubs finances and insist that all money invested in Rangers should stay within the Club. The administrators report is key to this as it will determine the scale of the task ahead, it is difficult to predict how long this process will take so we would ask fans to be patient and be 'Ready' when the time comes. Please pass this on to your friends, family, supporters' buses, online, everywhere & anywhere. Let's all come together as the one Rangers family and show the world that like our manager, we don't do walking away. https://www.saverangers.com/ http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/

This sums it up for me.

I done one for UTV on the boat across on Saturday. Most have seen it so lots of jokes and looks when out and about. Also done SSN outside the ground on Saturday but haven't seen it. Edit: tell us what you said, Frankie:)

Apparently, and I'm not trying to bull shit anyone, when Whyte finished his speech outside of Ibrox announcing administration, in a blind panic he told an employee to hide the keys to the trophy cabinets. Amateur hour at its very best.

Some info on fan involvement and practical governance: http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/sd/Licensing_Proposal_A.pdf

I feel the post I made elsewhere might fit the tone of this thread. If not then please discard, admin. It's not set to any agenda, just my ramblings from today! Do not read any further than one supporter's day please. Epic long day but, as always, it was worth it for many reasons. On the boat across you could feel the anticipation which was furthered backed up by the numbers on show. The new 'fast boat' is twice the size of the last boat we travelled in which had been adsorbing the support until today. The 'normal traveller' was smothered in red, white and blue as hundreds of fans from NI filled the nine deck boat intent on showing their loyalty to Rangers. As we all prepared to board the dock BBC NI were there asking for interviews. I was asked by Ardoyne RSC's secretary along with one other to share my thoughts. I declined on the basis that BBC Scotland are vermin and that I wouldn't want to share the same space with BBC never-mind share my personal feelings. Call it narrow minded but that is how I feel. On the boat and sipping out my ice-cold beers I was made aware that UTV (Ulster Television) was looking for an interview with fans. I decided to do it on the basis that Ardoyne RSC asked me to and along with two of their prominent members. Arriving at Ibrox ahead of schedule it was obvious the support was out in show. Not often you see so many outside the ground at 11.30am. Furthermore, the Wee Rangers Club was filling up quickly with an electric atmosphere early on. I done my duty by handing our leaflets/booklets inside the club. All leaflets were gratefully received. I then done two interviews for Sky Sports News. Pretty stupid doing two for the same channel but one was arranged and the other was off the cuff. No harm though and god knows how I come across on TV. I'm sure I will find out at some stage! The reason I was doing this was because of how strongly I feel and that I my head's bursting with opinions, not always coherent or consistent, but nonetheless, they are mines. I pressed the issue of how great our support is and that we are not going anywhere. I made the point of discussing share issues and the tangible benefits to the support. I then witnessed hundreds, if not thousands, march to the entrance of Ibrox celebrating Rangers. A proud site and one that will live long in the memory. When I figure out how to upload the video of our fellow fans, not upside down on camera, I will. Throughout the day however, I reflected on all what has/is going on; is Craig Whyte the biggest fraudster ever to own a football club or just a genius with unorthodox business practices? Is there a way back for Craig Whyte because of all the rumours and hysteria that has surrounded his short tenure? Would it not be best for all parties that he sells up after we exit administration where he might gain back some dignity? I'm not asking these questions as some Anti-Whyte campaigner, but as an ordinary fan that wants, not only the last nine months left in the past, but the last ten years of Sir David Murray's tenure put to bed. Throughout my thinking I have realised I do not know all the facts, I have heard both arguments; swayed slightly between both camps which has brought me into conflict with fellow fans and my own self judgement. Because I can't ascertain all the facts, and probably never will, I will now focus on supporting Rangers FC. I am of the firm belief that we, the fans, are the future, therefore; Rangers FC is our destiny and not just one man's plaything, entry into to celebrity circles or some easy way to make money. We are the future of Rangers FC, no one else.

He seems convinced that he's done nothing wrong, and because criminals never think they will get caught, it's likely he will. I hope he does!

Bitter little man. I laughed on numerous occasions though. Comedy gold.

Over the past two days many fans have been asking how to join the RST, how much it is to join and what do you get by joining the RST. I hope the following points answer those questions raised: • Annual membership costs £10. Renewable every April. • Life membership costs £100. • On joining the trust you will receive a membership certificate, card and welcome letter. • The reason for a fee is to help with running costs of the trust; like insurance, legal fees, web hosting and web development. • We are a not-for-profit organisation and 'our accounts are audited by independent accounts every year'. • It also pays for the Blue Spirit leaflets you may have seen handed out earlier this year • It also pays for The Trust to be members of Supporters Direct who govern football Trusts in the UK • It also paid for the Gerspride conference last year which was subsidised • It helps pay for campaigns which we have run this year. • The most important part of the Trust is strength in numbers. For example, if one person takes issue with an organisation, the likelihood is some generic lip service with an apology. However, if folk were to take issue with an organisation in numbers, then the organisation is likely to sit up and take notice. That is the beauty with an organisation such as ourselves. The minute the club announced administration we were swamped with questions about joining and we have had to post details and links to our ‘join us’ page. We are trying to answer as many queries as possible, however, we felt this would be more appropriate and efficient. We have also asked for suggestions from fans, not just members, on how you would approach the current situation. Our email should you wish to contact us: rstinfo@rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk Thanks http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10151296238630191&id=10150104779665191&notif_t=like

Guys, it's me that does most of the twitter stuff. I know your questions are there and will answer them in time. I need a break from answering emails, FB and twitter questions from this morning. Plus I have my own job to do! I have also forwarded some the questions to the board so more experienced board members give an answer. I can attempt the answer and be about 99% correct but I want to make sure the answers are correct. We do appreciate all your questions and suggestions.

I'm stealing your post BD:P Edit: If I recall, you said we were set up for admin after reading the circular back in the summer?

Quite apt, wouldn't you say?

I honestly feel that the tax case isn't the issue now and that we're heading for admin regardless of the outcome. I've convinced myself of it:(

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/09/rangers-chairman-investigation-craig-whyte-takeover?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+theguardian%2Ffootball%2Frss+%28Football%29