amms

I'm not sure that reaction to set back is in our DNA. Our form of dissent is a bit more Red Clydeside/Paisley Weaver/Covenanter style, and we're the better for it.

Yeah, I agree, many view the Rangers support as one homogenous group and all of us bigots, it's ridiculous and incredibly ignorant but it's surprisingly prevalent. I'm not sure holding that ignorant view makes them bigots though. A lot of this depends on your definition of bigot, whilst it has a broader meaning in the context of Scotland, and particularly football, most people will take it to mean religiously motivated. If that's what Green meant then I think he's mistaken, if it's not what he meant then he's showing surprising naivety and being poorly advised. There maybe individuals at clubs outside Celtic who are religiously motivated bigots but I personally don't think there are many. Celtic though have plenty.

I'm not convinced many supporters of Utd or Hibs act out of bigotry. They hate us but I don't believe it's religiously motivated. All the West of scotland Catholics I know support Celtic or Rangers, I don't know any who support any other team although some must I suppose.

He really didn't do his homework before coming up here, did he. I'm not sure he understands what he's said though. Tims apart I'm not sure you could accuse many of the other clubs of acting out of bigotry, just stupidity.

Being full-time we'll be fitter but I think the ability at this level will surprise many of us. Personally I'd like to see us sign some players who know the league and the players in it, all of these clubs are virtually unknown to us. We also need some guile in our squad, one match winner can make all the difference at this level. The standard of football isn't that bad in Division 3, many of the grounds are tight and every match we play will be like a cup tie (and we all know how we did in them last season). On top of that every player in the league will see it as their chance to shine, with most of our games being televised it'll be like the X-Factor for fitba players.

He's saying what we're all thinking. Whatever happens in the future no one should ever be allowed to forget that McCoist was pretty much the only person who articulated our frustrations, our hopes and our anger.

Is 'AM' on the Chris McLauglin tweets Ally McCoist? He doesn't miss the SPL does he.

So the right of appeal is the main concession we've won? It's an appeal to the SFA of course.

It'll be interesting to hear McCoist's take on this because at first glance it looks like total capitulation on everything, which is very disappointing.

I disagree Andy. At some point we need to accept the whole structure of the profesional game in Scotland is broken. Propping it up by gerrymandering the league set-up to appease TV and sponsors doesn't fix that. The reality is we have too many clubs who are insolvent, who don't produce football players of an acceptable standard, who are no longer in touch with their fan base or local communities and who rely totally on other clubs to survive. That's unsustainable, no amount of moving the blocks about is going to change that unfortunately. We are facing a few seasons of pain, as are a number of other clubs but I am increasingly of the view that it is in the mid to long term interests of the sport in Scotland that we change things. We've lost our way, we no longer even remember why we're doing this anymore, ingrained tribalism, one-up-man-ship and blind hostility have taken over our game. Add in the constant spectre of avarice and you have Scottish football. Hand on heart when was the last time any of us went to a Scottish league game and actually admired the play or players of the opposition? I don't want to come over all Bob Crampsey-esque here, but we have an opportunity to completely change things. The thought that after all that's happened we end up with basically the same again with a few concessions we can probably renege on later is almost as depressing as the last 6 months has been. We've a lot we could learn from the likes of Clyde and Annan, certainly more than we ever will from Dundee Utd and Kilmarnock.

Hmm, I'm not sure it's quite as clear cut as is being portrayed currently. I was under the impression that Stenhousemuir, Albion Rovers, Dumbarton and Hamilton had all said they would vote 'yes' to Division 1 for various reasons. I think Queens Park will too, falling out with the SFA isn't something they'll be keen to do. I believe East Stirlingshire will also vote 'yes' to Div 1. Another 5 or 6 are undeclared which with the clamour from supporters to declare 'no' to Div 1 suggests to me they are seriously considering 'yes' to Div 1. What sort of inducements are being offered to these clubs on top of the spoken about league reconstruction might be interesting to know. I think it might a closer vote than some think. Edit - I hear Brechin City are voting yes to Div 1 as well now.

Great stuff Andy. Perhaps Cosgrove thinks he's Robespierre, an inauspicious ending awaits.

Yes, attention seeker seeks attention. Although I've just noticed the forenames of 'Mr Clark' of Duff & Phelps fame, suddenly it all becomes clear...

You are truly through the looking glass when Annan Athletic and Clyde FC are the voices of sense, reason and the providers of leadership. That Turnbull Hutton character has annoyed me before but you can't really argue with his view of Doncaster. Good question about the Aberdeen chairman, both him and his fellow Dundee Utd sporting integrity lover have been very quiet of late, not like them. Lastly what have we ever done to Livingston, why are they so critical of us, or are they simply wanting what happened to them applied to us. Fair enough I suppose. BTW Where did these minutes come from?

Eurobank? Well it could be worse, we could be banking with Lloyds Group.

I think Regan's finished personally, his stock with the SFL clubs couldn't be lower. I expect him to 'resign for personal reasons' in the next month or two. To be fair if he left just now it would only add to the chaos, no matter how useless he clearly is. Doncaster might survive, he's only been doing the SPL clubs bidding from what I can see. As for Clyde, I have to say they have grown in my estimation enormously. They could teach all of us a thing or two about transparency and how a club should engage with its support. Another great statement.

Mate, you're reacting to this in an exaggerated way, your flounce post after the one above does you no credit. I don't think anyone is suggesting that's the only reason, but no doubt aspects of it are. If some dislike us for being 'Protestant' then they have the problem I'd say. The rest, probably football isn't the place for them to be honest.

Clyde are owned and run by their fans, aren't they? It really shows of late, i've been impressed by them.

Yeah, problem with that attitude GA is it is our problem as has been demonstrated recently. We cannot expect to prosper in any team sport if every other team in the league hates us. If everyone you deal with is an enemy then we'll continue to do nothing but fight, and if everyone is an enemy we'll lose more fights than we win. There is no reason why we should be disliked as much as we are, the reasons for that dislike need to be understood and acted on. Why would people need to forget who they are when they go to a football match? At the same time there are appropriate and inappropriate places to say and do certain things. The debate might be what is appropriate for a Rangers match in the 21st century. It was once acceptable to attend football matches whilst drunk, and to piss where you stood, it isn't now. Attitudes change on certain subjects, as a club we need to change with them or be left behind. The other issue with your statement is "it's time to say this is who we are if don't like it then it's your problem not ours" we can't agree ourselves on this, how do you suggest we resolve that?

Do you feel someone has suggested we do that on this thread so far?

: I knew the first bit, I didn't know the second. :tongue:

No 12 (Calscot and CG too) my use of the term 'Protestant club' probably needs explained more. I use the term to describe the background that a lot of our support come from. I fully accept that most Scots are irreligious and certainly not church going, I don't see that changing much in the future either. I also fully accept that the club itself is not in anyway religious, and I'm glad about that. For me Rangers should be about football and that alone. However even in modern Scotland someone who wasn't baptised and has never been in a church is often labeled 'Protestant' by dint of going to a non-denominational school. I fully accept the irony in that. As most of our supporters also attended non-denominational schools they are termed 'Protestants', often even when they really aren't. I also think the 'Protestant' side of our support is overplayed, as if that reason and that reason alone is why we are so well supported. I don't believe it is the case, I think the main reasons are football ones. Going forward I expect we'll continue to take the bulk of our support from that 'community', if it is such a thing. I would love it if everyone felt comfortable supporting Rangers, no matter their background or societal label. I'd hope that would be a goal for us going forward, as such we will need to have the 'Protestant identity/club' debate, what it means and how it fits into our future.

Isn't that more down to the order you read them in Andy? Certainly the highlighted articles on the home page are more eclectic. Someone even wrote one about Twitter very recently... I thought The Rangers Standard has managed to cover many topics in the short time I've known about it. It might be that archiving them by genre rather than chronologically has created your impression.

Is banning us actually possible from a practical point of view (I know it's possible in the rules)? If they banned us for a season would the SPL continue with 11 teams then, one club having a free weekend? Surely that would cost them more than playing against either Dunfermline or Dundee? If the SPL did have 12 clubs then how do they shoe horn us in next season, not take the team top of the SFL, enlarge the league to fourteen clubs? I can't see either working. So if Dundee or Dunfermline go into the SPL the SFL need another club this season or else they have the same problem. All those clubs will have done their budgets on playing the correct amount of games a season, removing 4 of them will have a detrimental effect. I just can't see how a suspension is workable, it feels like scare-mongering to me. Has it happened in any other league before?

It was relevant though didn't you think, even if you disagreed with it? I like the fact they've got some writers who don't support Rangers holding a mirror up to us. If the Protestant identity thing is an issue it should be discussed. I didn't get the feeling that any of them were suggesting using Billy Graham as the half time entertainment. I've no problem with Rangers being a 'Protestant club', I've some big issues with how some express that though. If our current 'Protestant identity' has played a part in this mess and is hindering us moving on then it's relevant and should be discussed. It of course could have no bearing at all.