amms

My tuppence worth. The comparisons with Barcelona and their 'political' affiliations are interesting and worth exploring a bit further. For a start in the Catalan comparison we're Espanol (or Espanyol since they moved to the Catalan spelling) not Barcelona. Our shared national histories are very different too. None of us have lived under a fascist dictatorship, a dictatorship that banned the speaking of their language and all other cultural identity and who used paramilitary police to subjugate the population. The reasons for Barcelona's (and other 'Spanish' clubs) politicisation are based in recent history and the opportunity to express a culture and identity that was otherwise prohibited. That hasn't happened in Scotland since the 18th century and certainly not since any of us were born. In my opinion comparisons between us are disrespectful to those who were detained, imprisoned, tortured and murdered by Franco's fascist movement. We might well be 'more than a club' but for very different reasons. I'm no nationalist, I'm uncomfortable with all signs of nationalism, be it Scottish or British or any other country. Wrapping a flag around yourself and using it as a symbol of identity baffles me. Anyone who doesn't think there is a need for change in this part of the world walks around with their eyes closed, in my lifetime the West of Scotland has gone from one of the most politically engaged areas of Europe to apathetic, disillusioned and disenfranchised. We've the lowest life expectancy in the western world, for fucksake that alone should have us marching on George Square. So something that increases our interest in politics and how we are governed pleases me, however chanting anti-SNP songs at Ibrox strikes me as childish posturing. We live in a democracy as people have pointed out so go speak to your councillor, your MSP, your MP and your MEP, hold them accountable for what they do, scrutinise them. Join a political party and agitate for change, start a blog, hold a demonstration, start a petition, write to the papers there are countless ways you can genuinely affect the change and express the sentiment you hold in a far more constructive way. I'm not uncomfortable with it because I disagree with it, but because I don't know where the line should be drawn. Is all 'political' or 'religious' singing allowed then? What if those horrible bastards with their stall in Mafeking Street fancy a few chants, is that okay too? What about the Scottish Defence League are we all okay with that? What about some pro-SNP chanting, anyone got any issues with that? What about abortion, seems to vex the Unionist/Loyalist politicians of Northern Ireland, can we expect some pro-life chanting next week? Or what chance we all decide that Ibrox isn't the place for it. We're too broad, we come from too many backgrounds, we've very different experiences and views. The only thing we all agree on is wanting Rangers to win, and even on that we strongly disagree about how we should achieve it! That should be the only subject we allow to be sung about at Rangers, everything else should be left at the door. It's not in our interests to turn people away from our club; no matter what you might feel about their politics.

The post was sarcastic and the total opposite of how I feel, Chilledbear's post so saddened me sarcasm was all I had left.

Aye, you're right, he's a Timposter, or a handwringer or a sniff sniff or whatever the term is these days, we're better off without him. Real Rangers fans don't speak out, don't raise their heads above the parapet and don't ever stray from the party line, whatever that might be these days. Being a lifelong supporter just isn't enough, attending matches for over 30 years isn't enough, no, undying obedience to the crown and the government that's what makes you a real bluenose, anything less and we don't want you.

I also welcome this. A proper understanding on the 'Irish Famine' would do many in this country some good. There is a lot of misunderstanding regarding it and indeed the Highland Potato Famine that preceded it is barely known here. Like the Highland Clearances, or the countless other 'famines' that Europe experienced in the 18th and 19th century it was the poorest and most vulnerable who suffered. That many of these people inadvertently then went on to turn Glasgow into one of the world's powerhouses should be marked.

Great opening post Frost. Frankie is right, we keep waiting for the bubble to burst and yet it just seems to keep getting bigger, except it actually doesn't. All thats happening is we're seeing fewer bubbles, the Scottish 'bubble' is well and truly burst, the Dutch one burst a while ago, even the Italian bubble has a large question mark over it. In Spain the 'big two' still seem invulnerable, but below them it's carnage, clubs like Athletico Madrid, Valencia and Seville are fucked, Swansea come and cherry pick their best players now. The German bubble was never as big as others and is still in place and the top flight English bubble is really the only one that continues to grow. Whatever anyone say's that isn't sustainable, a tipping point will be reached in the future. I've always been a big fan of cycling, very much a minority sport in the UK it's enjoyed a higher profile here of late with Olympic and now Tour de France success. As a sport it is very professional, big, big money is at stake, teams are heavily financed, riders work as teams and tactics are hugely important. What's been known for a while and in recent months has come to the attention of those with no interest in cycling is the systematic doping in the sport. The truth is everyone knew it was going on and, at best, they turned a blind eye, at worst they facilitated it or at least ensured it wasn't detected. As a sport they ignored what made it such a great sport because too much money was at stake. Today Rabobank, one of the largest sponsors announced it was pulling out of professional cycling. Nike, Budweiser and Trek all pulled out yesterday. They are doing this because the sport is seen as being corrupt. It is fundamental to any sport's wellbeing that it is seen as being fair. Without genuine competition and at least the appearance of a level playing field fans will turn on it, and then sponsors will desert it, then the house of cards comes tumbling down. In my opinion professional football is miles away from understanding this.

It's stuff like this that makes me love Rangers.

No I'm not. You said being a 'footballer isn't a job in any normal sense of the word', I disagreed with that. Of course it's a job in every sense of the word. It's paid employment, it's their occupation, it's a task they carry out for an agreed amount of money. That's what a job is. On top of that footballers themselves see it as a job. There is no contradiction between it being a job for them and us being fans, the two aren't analogous. The fact many of us care far too much about some of the people doing that job doesn't stop it simply being a job to the person carrying it out. Why do you think I don't understand that?

Actually there is a pretty good chance that both Willie Woodburn and Tiger Shaw did wear a pink strip. The Scotland 'away' strip from 1947 to 1951 was pink and yellow, the racing colours of the Earl of Rosebury the first honorary president of the SFA. Woodburn definitely played in the 1951 match against France where it was last worn, I can't be sure if Shaw ever wore it though. Pink only became a feminine colour in the 1950s.

That would depend on your definition of useless and what you are benchmarking them against. The owner of Rangers simply shouldn't be describing any other club as useless in public, it was undignified and embarrassing.

I disagree. The vast majority of footballers aren't involved in 'antics' of any sort, a small number are and they make the headlines, it's a familiar story. Football is a profession, and the majority who play it at that level treat it that way. Every professional footballer I've ever spent any time with has always viewed it as a job. A good job, a job they love, but a job all the same. Also, we aren't 'customers', we're fans, we behave differently from customers, that's the problem here.

It's funny you mention bagpipes and lochs. I've a programme from a European match away at Valletta of Malta in the early 80s. The programme is a belter, a huge thing, it was clearly a big match for them, but in the introduction they describe Rangers as 'the famous Rangers from the Highlands of Scotland' and throughout there are references to lochs and castles and so forth. It made me laugh at the time but I suppose to those who have never been here that's the impression of Scotland they have. Great story, thanks for sharing it. So growing up in East Germany didn't you see 'us' as the 'enemy'? I love hearing how people found Rangers, particularly the stories that are more unusual like yours.

Good questions to which I don't have an answer I'm afraid.

Personally I think having professional retailers running the club's retail is a good move. The costs involved in opening and running Rangers exclusive 'High Street' shops make no sense to me. Sports Direct are probably the largest currently, whether that makes them the best I'm not sure. Greaves Sports, the Glasgow based sports retailer, run the SRU shop at Murrayfield and are exclusive partners with the two Scottish professional rugby teams as well as Partick Thistle. The scale is obviously different but the concept is the same and most of the business is done online now too, they also manage that. I don't know the specifics of the deal but I'm happy with the thinking behind it. For a long time I've been convinced the Tim's shops are a vanity project and must be losing them money. That one in Sauchiehall Street in particular must be killing them.

Apologies if this is old ground for many of the posters on here, I suppose I'm still relatively new. So I've got to ask, why Rangers? The Bundesliga is hardly lacking in clubs with historical significance and strong fan culture, not to mention great players and successful teams, and the Oberliga had some decent teams once too. I read 'Tor!' a few years ago and it completely changed my view not only of German football but also German society, I'm full of admiration for how the sport is governed there. Please don't get me wrong, I think it's great you follow the Bears, I'm just a bit puzzled. PS Your English is spectacular, for what it's worth.

BTW are you actually German then? I'd just assumed you were a Scottish guy living there but your post on this thread suggested you grew up in East Germany?

Is it not simply a re-hash of Alex Thomson's blog from last week? Indeed it seems to be reporting his blog as fact, rather than opinion. It perfectly demonstrates why the nonsense in his blog needs challenged, too many people will read it and assume it is true.

Well, according to the Tobacco Manufacturers Association the consumption of cigarettes in the UK was 102.5 billion in 1990 and is 58.5 billion in 2009. The implementation of the smoking ban in bars and restaurants saw a drop in sales of nearly 7% across the country. To suggest legislating against something doesn't work is simply not correct.

To be fair a shirt and merchandise deal for a club the size of Rangers will take a bit of time to put in place. They only got the keys in June and a lot needed addressed first, I think it's a bit unfair to criticise Green or the club for not having an agreement in place by mid-October. Aside from the financial aspect of the deal and the design part both of which take a while to agree whoever gets the contract will have to be able to deliver, taking on a contract the size of Rangers will put pressure on anyones production capacity. It's also not impossible that Green was playing games with bidding parties when he mentioned being close to signing a deal, we're still a contract worth having, that kind of public utterance might have spurred someone else into action.

Good piece, good replies, well done all involved.

Mmm, do you think sales of funny-names book aren't going as well as hoped? It's an appalling article though, does anyone really believe people were "paid" to burn down Starks Park, really? People with "Belfast accents" oh well then they must have been terrorists. Fuck me. Someone wearing a Union Jack, was he wearing anything else I wonder, I hope it was tied tightly. Thomson is really scraping the bottom of the barrel now, that's a truly awful article.

That's actually a pretty good point, they'll take the money from somewhere.

Who, Swansea, Southampton and Aston Villa? I see no reason why not, I'm not aware of any of them having an issue with us. Either way it's kind of irrelevant, we're in no position to be spouting off about European leagues and 'big' clubs subsidising 'little' ones. Have we learned no lessons.

I read that earlier, if those quotes are accurate he should go and lie in a darkened room for a while. We're in no position to lecture any other club on size or ability, it sounded like arrogant nonsense, embarrassing frankly. I hope he's been mis-quoted or taken out of context.

It's ironic, for years it was alleged that Celtic under-reported their attendances, now they inflate them. They'll claim they include all season ticket holders whether they turn up or not.

I'll take one Zappa, I did the last East Stirlingshire game so maybe Elgin this time? Up to you, I'm easy.