amms

Still unable to form a coherent argument I see. Fair enough, you can't defend the indefensible.

It took to the bottom of page 13 before someone blamed McCoist, that's a new Gersnet record, well done. See I know nothing about it, but even I know that it isn't all down to ability, i'm surprised someone with your deep knowledge doesn't. Mentality, courage, the ability to follow instruction, positional sense, temper control, physical strength all play a part. Still, blame Ally, it's all the rage.

It's not particularly hard, really? I'm sorry Gunslinger but that's just utter rubbish. I've no idea what qualification you've got but if you've the ability you seem to think you have I've no doubt you'll be snapped up as a scout by a senior side sometime soon. Ability like yours shouldn't be hidden away.

Anecdotal information is important and like you I’d want the club to give the best possible impression. At the same time I’m wary. Asking parents of youth players to contribute to their development doesn’t sound like the worst idea I’ve ever heard. Indeed I could be persuaded that sorting out the commitment of potential players at that age, or indeed their parents, might be a smart move. If they’re picking clubs based on money at that stage then what chance do we have of engendering any loyalty in them later on? But your friends experience is disappointing. When was this as a matter of interest?

You really think anyone can just rock up and pick tomorrow's stars GA? Really? I was speaking with an employee of Rangers this week who was telling me that the stand out guy in training is Kai Naismith, he's got every trick, flick and feint apparently. Would you put your house on him becoming a first team regular far less an international player? I doubt a University degree is needed but a fair bit of experience at that level is a must. Maybe over at Celtic anyone can spot a star, that's why their youth set up is so good. Oh, wait...

As often as I've seen Celtic's. My 'opinion' is irrelevant anyway, I'm not in anyway qualified to tell if a youth player will make it to first team football. Are you?

Yeah. I'm providing facts, statistics and examples of players, you're blaming the weather or the price of Buckfast in Coatbridge yet I'm the one having a nightmare. Good one. A decade ago Celtic apparently had the cream of Scottish youth, they were the most represented club in the best Scottish international side of the last 20 years. A decade is an acceptable length of time to judge any youth set-up, I've no agenda, I'm just stating facts. You start including guys who are now in their 30s if you want, but they are hardly illustrative of what's happening just now or in the recent past. Pick any time frame you want, as I said go back to the 70s, what about Charlie Nicholas, Billy McNeil, Wille Malley!! Yeah, they're getting horsed, of course it matters. I enjoy hearing of Celtic getting horsed, so will most of the people on this site, I was simply giving you the opportunity to spread some joy for a change... All the sides I mentioned weren't invited either, how are you judging their youth set-up then, inferior to Celtics? I'm the only one doing any debating, you're just closing your eyes, putting your hands over your ears and shouting 'Celtic are great, Celtic are great' at the top of your voice. Back up your assertion with facts not opinion. No, no, I'm really bitter, I'm the first to admit it. But that alone doesn't make me wrong on this.

What? No, this isn't possible, some mistake surely. They must mean Celtic, they've the best youth-set up in the whole wide world...

You think, prove it.

Absolutely, I'd add Motherwell, Dundee Utd and Kilmarnock to that too. No one is saying Rangers have the best system, I'm saying Celtic's is worse.

And by what criteria are you measuring them by?

As a young player where do you go. The team where you have a chance to have a career as a top professional player or the the team where you'll be packing supermarket shelves in 10 years based on past experience? It's all relative GS.

No, they are unknown, outside of their immediate family, hardcore Celtic fans, and you, most people will never have heard of the 6 Celtic players who made that squad. Right, so Scottish society victimises young Celtic players in particular Kuznetsov, is that what youâ??re saying? That none of them made it at Celtic tells you everything about their wonderful youth set up and nothing about Scottish society. Read it again. Iâ??ll use big letters to help you â??THE LAST 10 YEARSâ??. Of the players you mentioned only one of them made their Celtic debut after 2003, that was David Marshall in 2004. Stephen Pearson was bought from Motherwell for £400,000. McManus, Maloney, Miller, Crainey and Kennedy are all in there 30s now, Crainey made his Celtic debut in the last century! Even Beattie and Wallace started in 2003 and 2002 respectively. Beattie of course came through Rangers youth set-up. Iâ??m surprised you didnâ??t throw Kenny Dalglish and Lou Macari in as well as further evidenceâ?¦ Next Gen, yeah, Man Utd, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Lyon, Bayern Munich et all must be flying people directly to Barrowfield to figure out how Celtic do it seeing as they arenâ??t in it either. Still, what do those clubs know about youth development, eh? By the way how are Celtic getting on in that tournament?? Biased, me? You better fuckin believe it Kuz. My nose is blue and my world is seen through blue-tinted spectacles. Iâ??ll never pretend any differently. But ignorant, no, Iâ??m not. I see the world for what it is. If Celtic do something well Iâ??ll probably just say nothing. Deal in facts, not what a polluted media tell you. On any realistic measurement Celtic have a mediocre youth set-up.

No GA, I've not read anyone taking issue with Elfideldo, I've taken issue with your statement about Celtic, as I believe a few others have. Criticising your admiration of Celtic's youth set-up is not the same as complimenting ours. Pointing out that theirs has fallen way short of anything approaching excellence in the last 10 years is not saying ours has. It isn't blind loyalty to Ally, its an ability to see through Celtic propaganda.

I don't believe everything is fine at Auchenhowie and I stated that quite clearly. I just refuse to join this genuflecting to Celtic that seems to be all the rage on here these days. Frankly I'd struggle to praise their system if it was good, I certainly won't when it's mediocre at best. Any young Rangers player who wants to join them can go with my blessing, good fuckin riddance.

Good piece Frankie, well written. The Record's front page today was sensationalist in the extreme. You wonder how much of it was a dig at their old colleague. I notice he has responded tonight and his piece perhaps echoes some of what Frankie mentioned in his article. Indeed he hints very strongly at a future change of direction. - http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/opinion/item/3316-time-for-fans-to-unite#.URQHey-54bU.twitter I'd remind those criticising Media House that we of course don't know about the stories they've managed to kill in the past or the bridges they've helped build elsewhere. Without wishing to over sensationalise it the best PR is done quietly and without anyone noticing. Media House are very, very good at it, don't be fooled.

A small percentage might have but most will long have forgotten most of that team. Not everyone shares your great interest in unknown ex-Celtic players. It says nothing about Scottish society, they weren't 12 year olds they were 18. What are you talking about? I picked the most successful Scotland team for 20 years, all of who are now in their mid 20s and reaching their peak as footballers. Pick any youth international side you want, it'll show the same thing. Celtic have produced 3 players of any note in the last 10 years and I'm being fairly charitable here. McGeady, Mulgrew who they actually released without him making a first team appearance and Forrest who might be good or might yet be a damp squib. Aye, let's emulate that, best youth set up in Scotland so it is.

Good, hopefully that means you'll stop saying how wonderful Celtic's youth system is then. Let me further illustrate my point. In 2006 Scotland's under 19 team reached the final of the European Championship (not the finals the actual final) losing to Spain. How many of that team do you think most of us have heard of? Lee Wallace Gary Kenneth Steven Fletcher Robert Snodgrass Calum Elliot once of Hearts was also in the team although his career has lost it's way recently. The rest of them you've barely heard off, lower leagues or not playing at all now. Graeme Dorrans and Mark Reynolds were among the subs. Of the squad 6 were on Celtic's books and I've never heard of any of them. Between the six of them they amassed 4 first team appearances. All this proves is that being very good at 17/18/19 is no guarantee of success, none at all. Last night's Scotland team should have contained most of that under 19 team from 2006, they should all be reaching their peak as professionals now. As we know though that just isn't how it works.

It's not the point, the claims are about how Celtic's youth system is one of the best in the country. I disagree with your claim, I see no proof of that. Their current first team has barely a youth graduate in it. We can point at Scotland schoolboy or youth teams all we want that proves very little frankly. Producing first team players should be the goal and our record is as good as anyone in Scotland's just now for that. If, in 4 or so years time the Celtic first team has 4 or 5 youth graduates holding down first team places then I'll accept their system is working, but their is no evidence it is just now. I used last nights Scotland starting XI simply to illustrate the point that youth development should be measured on graduates not potential or money being thrown at it. I'm fairly certain our youth set-up could be improved, but I'm not buying that Celtic's is somehow superior. Time will be the judge of that.

Not based on producing players for their first team they don't which surely must be the stick all youth set-ups are measured against. Last night's Scotland starting side contained 4 graduates of Rangers youth set-up, 2 from Celtic, 2 from Hibs, 1 from Hearts, 1 Kilmarnock and 1 from Arbroath. On that reckoning their youth set-up is twice as good as Arbroaths and half as good as ours!

3. The biggest stage Rangers won the league for the first time in my adult life in 1987. I was a child in the 70s and my formative Rangers years were of us being the third, fourth and, at times the fifth, best team in the country. Character building days. So when Rangers won the league in 1987 for someone in their mid teens like I was, not only was it the first time I’d seen them win the league but also the first time I see them play in the European Cup. There was much anticipation of this. We were managed by European Cup winner and whilst we didn’t really think we could win the trophy it was felt we could make some progress. So it was a blow when the draw paired us with one of the strongest sides in the continent, Dynamo Kiev. The Kiev side was legendary; they were not only the reigning Soviet Union champions but also UEFA Cup holders. A genuine European force they provided most of the Soviet Union side and were in reality the de facto Ukrainian national side and were managed by a true football visionary, Valeriy Lobanovskyi. In truth the draw could really not have been harder. Adding to their vast talent and experience was fitness and match sharpness, the Soviet league played through the summer, Kiev were at the their peak, we were still showing early season rustiness. The away leg was first and we lost 1-0. It was a credible result but in knock-out, two legged football away goals were seen as essential to progress and we didn’t have one. We’d need to beat the Uefa Cup Holders by 2 clear goals at home. The phrase ‘Ibrox was buzzing’ is an overused cliché, but for once it was accurate. There was great expectation, a degree of fearfulness but also hope among the support. We were playing a great side but in those heady days it felt like anything was possible, we were up for it, but were the team? They were, kick-off needed to be taken twice as our forwards were literally on top of the Kiev players before they’d even touched the ball. Our first goal was a comedic affair, the Kiev keeper attempted to throw the ball out only to hit the back of his own player. Who was first to react, who do you think? McCoist! Ally pounced, stabbing the loose ball to his strike partner Mark Falco who scored the easiest and most memorable goal of his career. We needed another though and in the second half McCoist provided it. As headers go it wasn’t textbook, indeed the more uncharitable might describe it as a fluke. But in the net it settled and Rangers were in control. McCoist made the first and scored the second and Rangers had arguably one of their finest ever European results. More than most Ally contributed to probably the best European performance I’ve ever witnessed from a Rangers side.

If they ever post that rubbish on here I will, in the meantime whilst it's you doing the posting and passing it off as fact it's you I'll query it with. You.

"Celtic's charitable roots", really? Did I just read that phrase on a Rangers supporters meesageboard. Celtic were set up to prevent apostasy, the city's RC hierarchy were becoming increasingly worried by Irish immigrants being exposed to evangelical Protestants running east end soup kitchens. Aye, charity begins at home, tell the Nigerians that. Celtic have 7 million supporters in Japan, hahaha!!! Celtic mania in Honduras, Jesus, where do you even begin with this lunacy. Rangers have over 40 supporter's clubs in North America, not so shabby. Our CEO is in Melbourne shortly for a sold out Q&A. The Irish diaspora generally couldn't give two fucks about Celtic, even the ones who have an interest in football choose Man U or Barcelona as their 'European' team. Celtic are a PLC, it is in their interests to talk up everything. Most of it is bolloks. Nakamura joining Celtic led to an interest in the club, it wained as soon as he left. That's what happens in football. A club has a good season and some neutrals take an interest. We signed Canniga and apparently there was an increase in interest in us in Argentina. That doesn't mean we've 7 million fans there. You've been swallowing shit so long you're starting to enjoy it.

2. Off the pitch. In the late 80s Radio Clyde, no doubt when the programme controller was on holiday, broke away from their chart friendly perky presenter led shows and produced a short series of interviews with sports people. Being Glasgow this was mainly footballers with maybe Tom McKean thrown in as a token â??other sportâ??. It was a Desert Island Discs type of format with a presenter probing the interviewee on their life story, career highs and lows and other interests. As the presenter chosen was Chick Young the questions rarely rose above superficial banter and suggested nightclub escapades. Each â??starâ?? chose half a dozen or so records culminating in a favourite. Footballers at that time were no more culturally aware than they are now. They liked mainstream pop, as predictable as it was forgettable. Perhaps a Simple Minds or U2 track was as good as it got. Ally McCoist, as well as being the most engaging guest chose a wide and eclectic range of songs culminating the 1977 song â??Do Anything You Wanna Doâ?? by Punk band Eddie and the Hot Rods. Ally zigged when everyone else zagged. Ally was a hipster. [video=youtube_share;weQ4oNk7Pqc]

Well, I do. Everytime I go onto Gersnet someone is putting Ally down. Fine, I get why I just don't want to join in. This thread is for Ally love, no negativity allowed. Obviously I'm powerless to stop it but I trust you doom merchants will remain in one of the many, many Ally bashing threads. McCoist is arguably the greatest ever Ranger, certainly the greatest living Ranger, here we celebrate him. 1. McCoist moment. It's pissing with rain, really teeming down. Rangers v Celtic in the cup at Hampden on a Wednesday night. I'm in the Rangers end with my Dad, we're in the very first row, we're literally below pitch level with our view further obscured by polis, ballboys and ambulancemen. The front row is also beyond the roof so we are getting soaked. We're next to a bunch of Northern Irish guys with a large 'Shankill Loyal' flag which is big enough for us all to shelter under. Not long in to the match and Rangers are down to 10 men, Davie Robertson sent off for being unable to dematerialise when Joe Miller runs into him. Celtic are rampant, they sense blood, they are swarming all over us, it's back to the walls stuff and a long, wet, cold night is in store complete with a shit view. Then Stuart McCall dispossess some Tim or other, in their half, he's got nowhere to go and and only one pass on. He slips it through to an onrushing McCoist, Ally checks his stride slightly and meets the ball first time from the edge of the box planting it into the bottom corner. We explode, we are in the presence of greatness, again. We're battered senseless for the rest of the match, but we're not breached, not ever. Ally, predator in chief, ensures the Shankill Loyal, my Dad and I go home soaked, freezing and grinning like Cheshire Cats. Thank you Ally, it'll never be forgotten.