amms

I don't disagree, i'm not arguing that they were right in what they did, only that I've sympathy with their initial grievance. I only mentioned money in answer to your point about it costing money to police. You could argue that banning all marches would save the city a fortune, but it isn't a good reason to do it.

You've more knowledge of their march request than I do, I disagree with the 28 day rule but it exists and that's all there is to it. I don't think they should be allowed to ignore the rules, I just think the rules are an ass, designed for political reasons. I disagree the police response was appropriate, I think it inflamed the situation rather than contained it, I'm not sure who that benefits. The policing of football supporters is an issue, we've been treated like second class citizens for as long as I've been going to matches. That's not right, that mindset needs challenged. I don't support the Green Brigade, but I've some sympathy with what they were trying to protest about.

Yes, you break the law you should accept the consequences, I agree. I think my point is that they should have been allowed to march, it shouldn't have been banned, neither should the Union Bears 'march'. I can't think of a reason why a group of Celtic supporters marching to Parkhead from the Gallowgate on a match day is an issue. They were unlikely to meet a counter demonstration (unlike say the EDL who are always going to be contentious wherever they march) and it would have taken far fewer police to facilitate a march than it took to prevent one.

I agree, they did bring it on themselves, as soon as they tried to march on the road they were always going to run into trouble. I think the policing was excessive but that's a different point.

Hahaha! I wondered where he'd got too recently, not noticed him for a while, I'll check my hedge! I understand the 'march' was in protest at the way the police are using their powers in regards to football supporters. As I said I've a degree of sympathy with that view, policing at football is an issue we all face. As for marches costing money I'm uncomfortable with that being used as a reason not too allow them. That's the price of a 'free' society, if we allow local authorities or police to decide who can and can't protest on the grounds of cost then we've some constitutional issues at stake. There are marches all the time from groups and organisations I don't support or care for, i'm not sure if people do it for reasons of self-importance, I've never wanted to do it myself. The police response was excessive in terms of numbers. There are political games being played just now, the creation of the 'all Scotland' police force is seeing a fair bit of jockeying for position, the police are also very keen to show the need for greater budgets and greater powers to control public order. The truth is the police don't like public marches and they don't like football crowds.

I'm going to be fairly unpopular here but I've a degree of sympathy with aspects of what happened on Saturday. I also think the law regarding football supporters and how it is currently being enforced is draconian and over-the-top. So I broadly support an organisation protesting about it. The author's point about them applying for a licence to march and it being rejected is valid. But why was it rejected, who decides who can and who can't make protests in this country now? I don't particularly like the Green Brigade. Aside from being a generation removed from them and feeling every year of it there is a political side to them I strongly disagree with and that's before we get into their horrific choice of team they support. But if it's possible to ignore that for a minute then I'm actually in broad agreement with the point they were trying to make. In my opinion they should have been allowed to march to Parkhead if they applied too. That's surely a democratic right for all of us, eroding that, even for people we dislike, is a slippery slope. Likewise the Union Bears, I can see no good reason why their march was banned. Surely the police should be there to facilitate people's right to protest, not prevent it? That they chose to ignore the ban is asking for trouble, however I'm not sure they weren't right too. The law is an ass on this, somebody needs to highlight that. On top of that the police response does seem to have been over-the-top. Was their no other crime in Glasgow on Saturday afternoon that hundreds of officers could be mobilised to contain a similar amount of football supporters? The minute you put a football scarf on you are viewed differently by the law, many of the rights you believe you have are removed. Any of us who has attended football matches over the years will have experienced this, and it has got worse recently. The Green Brigade clearly have members who are utter pricks. But I'm kind of siding with them on this, as uncomfortable as that is to say publicly.

Unrelated but kind of related (if that makes sense) there is serious talk that the whole Trinity Mirror group is in jeopardy over phone hacking thing. Although this probably feels like old news some arrests were finally made last week and I know a couple of non-Mirror Group journalists who are predicting doomsday when what they did gets out. Not the types prone to hyperbole either.

Welsh league football is on a par with junior football here, it's semi-professional and not of a great standard. Northern Irish football is in the doldrums. Glentoran, one of the biggest clubs on the whole island, are teetering on the brink of insolvency, Newry Town went out of business last season and most of the other clubs have had financial problems over the last decade. It's worse in the Republic, clubs there have been run well beyond their means for a few seasons, new guidelines have been introduced to try and combat this but every season for the last 4 or 5 a senior top league club has either gone out of business or suffered a financial collapse and being demoted because of it. Iceland and Norway are quite different, they don't have a dominant cultural neighbour who speak the same language and as them. The presence of England is the big problem to football here and in Wales/NI/ROI. I imagine Austria suffers similarly due to Germany's influence?

Yeah, we said that about Davie Wier once of course. At 30 you'd expect to still get 3 seasons out of him at this level, his game isn't based on pace so he should be able to maintain his style of play. That he's a free also negates the need for a future sell on value. I understand why people are reticent, but as long as the squad has balance I've no problem with some of them being 30+ aged players. Kyle and Alexander will likely leave at the end of the season and McCulloch won't go on for ever, we do need some experience in the dressing room.

I'm not sure which Daly thread is the main one, so I'll post it in here. I'd welcome the signing of Daly mainly for a reason I haven't seen mooted yet. Yes he's experienced, yes he's versatile, yes he knows the Scottish game and the physicality of it will be no problem for him. More importantly for me though is he's Dundee Utd's captain, he's a leader, an organiser, a motivator on the park. We've badly lacked one of them this season, when McCulloch is out no one has stepped up to take that mantle. As we all know at times we've looked shambolic at set-pieces, having a player who is good at them and experienced enough to organise those around him could make Daly a very shrewd piece of business. I like Wallace as a player but I'm not sure he's captain material yet. Of course close to six months of Dundee Hibs and Celtic fans making his life a misery might make him think it just isn't worth the hassle.

Maybe they'll give us a couple more titles, just to really annoy them!

Oh. All the best with that, I hope it's nothing serious.

You're right, he was involved, although he didn't pass the 'sentence' that was Gary Allan QC, Eric Drysdale of Raith Rovers and Alistair Murning.

Wasn't that Lord Carloway?

What did Nimmo Smith have to do with that?

I'm not sure what you are insinuating? If he has mental health issues, or has had in the past, I'm not sure what bearing it has on this, if any. Does it?

I think we should learn how to spell sentence.

Serious question. Do we really think Eton schooled, Oxford and Edinburgh University educated retired High Court judge William Nimmo Smith is part of the conspiracy? On the face of it he seems an unlikely conspirator. I could be convinced he's out of touch, perhaps even senile, but corrupt and with a hard-on for Rangers?

As I think I butted into your Twitter conversation yesterday to say after last summer's events many clubs know they can ignore their vocal supporters now. The promise of increased attendances for most of the SPL clubs if they kicked Rangers out has simply not materialised, indeed many have suffered the opposite as the season has gone on. Those clubs now know that a 'guaranteed' revenue stream is more vital than fickle hate based promises. Clubs have reverted back to their default 'ignore supporters' position.

I met with the owner of a largish Division 1 club recently and I was teasing him about this subject. His view, and he claims the view of many of the SFL clubs, is that to get back to one league body is in the interests of the game and the majority of the clubs in Scotland. If the price for that is a farcical league set-up for a couple of seasons then in his opinion it is worth paying. The league set-up will be changed again in a couple of seasons time if it isn't working. As things stand today Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Hearts are all in the bottom six, those are attractive fixtures for all the first division sides and they'd be foolish to turn that chance down. Add in some potential derby matches too. There is still a feeling that Rangers were just as culpable as Celtic in the creation of the SPL and the disenfranchisement of most clubs in Scotland. That we now find ourselves in with the 'diddy' clubs is ironic, but it doesn't change their stance on how the game should be governed.

This might be the thread to post this in. It's not about us, at least not directly, but it makes some interesting points and is worth reading whatever 'side' of the discussion you are on. http://www.thefootballramble.com/indepth/entry/passing-the-buck-and-teaching-the-minority The point is that we all have a responsibility to monitor the behaviour and raise the consciousness of our fellow football fan. Fandom should not preclude us from questioning and criticising supporters of the same club. If we want to take the credit when a group of fans raise a load of money for charity, unveil a witty banner, come up with a funny chant or travel in their tens of thousands to an away game to show just how dedicated they are, then in return we must take the responsibility when a group in our number behave appallingly. And authorities should start punishing everyone associated with the club until it stops.

What am I missing here, what has this got to do with the BBC?

Ooh, a thread about playing football, how novel! Great post, Swansea are, quite rightly, being held up currently as an example of how you run a football club. I mentioned them myself in an article several months ago, and like you say we are in danger of missing an opportunity here. The interest in short term capital is the single biggest issue at Rangers for me just now, with owners not looking beyond the next couple of years. That's not an 'anti-Green' position, simply my view of where we seem to be as a club. That aside the expectation level at Swansea allowed them to do this. They've never won anything, have spent most of their history out of the top flight and barring a brief spell in the early 80s have never troubled the top of the table. This atmosphere allows for experimentation, for time to be spent on development and for set-backs to be accepted. I recall an interview with Alex McLeish about his time as Rangers manager. He called Alex Ferguson and Walter Smith and they apparently both gave him the same advice "just win". It was telling of the mentality around our club and also the expectation. Up until this season second place in the top league was failure, that puts us in a very small group of clubs in the world. I wonder if our support would allow us to develop like Swansea, or if after a couple of bad results the knives would be out for those in charge. Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever find out.

Oh there are a few results from our past that are contenders. For me Division 4 of England is of a higher standard than Div 3 of Scotland but it's very subjective. From my less than scientific analysis Stirling Albion were the lowest placed club to beat us in a competitive match in living memory, they only had 3 points after 6 games when we played them. Edit - Though I accept we ourselves are at a far lower level than when we played any of those previous sides.

Victory in Stirling has always been vital. Itâ??s one of those towns thatâ??s more important than its size suggests. Against the odds in 1297 a William Wallace inspired Scottish army won the battle of Stirling Bridge, some 17 years later Robert The Bruce did likewise close by in Bannockburn. As history has demonstrated it's a town where being favourite is no guarantee of success. Back in October we visited Forthbank for the first time on league duty and discovered for ourselves the perils of over confidence and not knowing your surroundings. We looked uncomfortable from the start and our 1-0 defeat was a result that felt like it had been coming for weeks. Itâ??s apt that in a town as historically important as Stirling we recorded arguably our worst ever defeat. When we look back on the club in years to come Stirling will be seen as our footballing nadir. Since that day we havenâ??t lost in the league, dropping only 4 points whilst Stirling Albion have won only 5 games and sit second bottom of the league with only goal difference separating them from last place, weâ??re clear favourites, and so we should be. However statistics tell only half the story, Albion have had six matches postponed through weather since we last met and are currently on a 5 match unbeaten run, a run that contains three home wins. They are in-form just now and will relish the opportunity to do the double over us at home. Team wise Rangers defence continues to give concern. Cribari missed Saturday with illness and his replacement, Perry, only lasted 50 minutes before being replaced by Faure. I donâ??t expect weâ??ll know until near kick-off just who is fit to play in the centre of defence. Frankly, even fit, none of them inspire much confidence. Hegarty will likely start with maybe Wallace or Faure deputising in central defence, a position neither is comfortable in. Hutton and Black should hold midfield with Templeton alongside. MacKay disappointed against Berwick and might find his place on the bench on Tuesday. That might see in-form striker Little, switched to wide right with Sandaza returning to partner Shiels up front. I think whatever the starting line-up the team will have a patched-up feel to it with a few square pegs forced in. Despite the obvious disparity between our two clubs we have much we can learn from our hosts. They are owned and run by their fans, their supporterâ??s trust playing the lead role. Indeed it is a sad indictment on Scottish football that the two sides controlled by their supporters, Albion and Clyde, find themselves occupying the bottom two spots in the league. There is no need for Stirling Albion fans to display provocative banners at their home games, their supporters voice is heard at the boardroom table. Speaking of supporters being heard ours can expect a particularly bright spotlight shone on them after Saturdayâ??s medley of 1970s favourites. It should never be forgotten that for thousands of Rangers supporters the need to sing about the Pope, his congregation or Irish republicans baffles us. The persistence some have with this obsession embarrasses the club and most of its supporters, hopefully the penny will drop on this sometime soon. Stirling Albion were born from the ashes of Kings Park FC, the original Stirling side, and in truth they havenâ??t achieved a great deal since their formation in the 1940s. Yet history tells us if you want to conquer Scotland you need to win in Stirling, defeat to Albion for a second time is unlikely to affect the outcome of the league, but it could prove fatal for the careers of some of our players and indeed management team.