amms

Okay, I look forward to your deeper answer. The Loving Cup is one of the little things that make our club great. A beautiful piece of pottery with a sense of history which we received for a selfless, charitable act. That it is used once a year to toast the monarch is great, I love that about it. It's a historical curiosity that pertains to a time and place, its place in our club is emotional. It's like the St Etienne bike or the Arsenal shares (I'm still disproportionately angry about them) in that it only matters to us, only we put value on it. That said I'm not sure what your point is.

I think the airport shop is a stupid idea but I must admit that's a superb poster!

Where did you hear that? The SPL put out a design tender a few weeks ago and asked 6 or 7 companies to present for it. They asked for ideas on the names and for designs too, the budget was nothing like the figure you are quoting I can assure you. I doubt they'd need to pay anyone anything to use the names they've chosen, any copyright will only be on the designs and devices surrounding them, not the words themselves. As Calscot said it does show a huge lack of imagination though and is at odds with the 'brief' they issued. This was driven by the SPL marketing 'dept' with the decision to be made by the SPFL management board. To be fair to them it was done at ridiculous speed but that's what they get. For what it's worth the names and designs chosen were done by the design agency the SPL and the SFA used previously. The more things change...

Serious question, what do you think should have happened in that instance?

When that happened we rightly complained. The complaint was upheld and apology made or am I mixing it up with another report? I disagree that 'the Scottish Media' don't want that image change, some no doubt don't but why do you feel that's the majority view?

Forlan's Sister looks like Catherine Zeta Jones? This news that should have been shared before now!

Fine, leave it at that, but acknowledge it isn't what you originally said at least. You claimed the following... ...and that's simply not true. The vast majority of owners who put money in get no return, at least not a financial return. This thread is about ownership and directors, wanting owners and directors who won't demand a personal financial return is very much the norm in British football, not the exception you made it out to be.

I've no specific knowledge on Cowdenbeath. Their size, league status and potential support suggest they'd be an unlikely source, I imagine the best their directors could hope for is to break even, I doubt they take much out the club as I doubt the club has much to take. But I could be wrong. If you are simply using them as an example to demonstrate scale then there probably is little difference between them and the clubs you mention. But I can't be sure, they might be exceptionally well run and rely on no one, certainly I know Morton operate in the same way as Man City just on a very different scale. But the point being made was surely about owners and directors taking money out of clubs, not putting money in? I doubt the owners of Man City will get a financial return on their 'investment', they derive other less tangible benefits of course. I totally agree with you about players and their agents draining money out of the game, but it is something of a strawman. The discussion was about directors and shareholders taking money out of clubs for themselves. I see very little evidence of this happening in the UK, perhaps only a handful of examples at most.

What's the point here Reaper? I'm trying to engage with you, trying to understand what you are getting at, you seem to have a contrary view on this and I'm trying to understand why you've formed it. But you won't engage, you won't explain and you won't back anything you claim up. You seem to be stating that finding clubs where the owners 'put in' but don't 'take out' are harder to find than 'gnats piss'. I've given you a list of about 10 clubs where the opposite is true. Is my list wrong, have I misunderstood your view? I'm not trying to pick a fight I'm trying to understand, but it's not easy.

I'm trying, believe me. But again a riddle. You link back to the beginning of our conversation, no explanation, nothing to back up your 'theory' nothing new to help clear my fog. What am I missing here?

I think you're an asset to Gersnet dB, I'm always interested in your take on us, your distance and upbringing often gives you a fresh perspective which I enjoy. However, your intransigence on this subject and your failure to read between the lines is difficult to understand. It is not STV who are bringing his name into disrepute, he is managing that perfectly well on his own. They highlight that point because it astounded many observers, including Strathclyde Police, when they were granted the licence. Make of that what you will. I don't know what you know about the private taxi business in the West of Scotland, so here's a hint http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/3057045/Taxi-tycoon-Stevie-Malcolms-gangland-links.html and here's another http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7385384.stm You're a smart guy dB, work it out.

I really struggle to understand some of your posts, they're like riddles, my old age is clearly taking it's toll. Yes those are my words, I know that, I typed them. Why do you disagree with them? Aberdeen have been bankrolled by Milne, Dundee Utd were bankrolled by Eddie Thomson, Hibs were saved by Tom Farmer, John Boyle poured hundreds of thousands into Motherwell, the Moffat family ploughed millions into Kilmarnock which they eventually wrote off and gave the club away, despite this they still owe millions to their current owner, Ross County rely heavily on investment and soft loans from Roy MacGregor, until fairly recently Geoff Brown was paying players salaries out of his own pocket at St Johnstone and Hearts predicament is there for all to see. These are simply the biggest examples, scratch a little deeper and you'll see that ICT, Hamilton Accies, Dunfermline, Morton and Raith Rovers are all indebted to their owners or directors. None of those people have a hope of getting their money back far less making a profit on it.

Who I claim are putting money in? What does that mean? It's a fact that almost every club in Scotland relies on or has recently benefited from the largesse of an owner or shareholders. Some of the smaller clubs are pretty well run but almost every club in the SPL and Div 1 fall into this category. Do you disagree?

Yeah, because it's a bad system. Club's should be owned by their fans, simple as that.

That's simply not true. Pretty much every club in Scotland with the possible exception of Celtic have owners who put in but get no return. In England it is pretty much the norm too, football clubs are not normal businesses. Oh, and Real Madrid, Barca and Man U have debt that would startle most companies.

I asked what experience he brings because in the clamour that's surrounded his appointment it's been forgotten. It surprises me the club hasn't made a statement explaining his strengths and areas of expertise. Whatever you think of Murray and Cartmell it was at least easy to see what expertise they had. As a non-exec director what is it Easedale brings to Rangers? What other non-execs does he hold, what did he bring to those companies? It's remiss of us not to ask that question, anyone who is elevated to the board of Rangers should be able to explain what they bring, it's neither a leading nor loaded question. You seem to be suggesting the 'dignified silence' approach to Easedale's appointment. Those days have gone, anyone who wants a part in how our club is run must expect scrutiny and be able to demonstrate what they bring to the board and the club. Have you met Easedale, do you know him, do you vouch for his intelligence and his success?

There's more to Lumsden than that to be fair. He works (worked?) in further education so he has some formal qualification in teaching young people. My knowledge of him is limited but I wouldn't read too much into Albion Rovers being relegated, they are basically a Junior side in all but name, they were punching above their weight being in Div 2.

It's a frustrating thread this. All of us hold various beliefs on a whole host of subjects. Some of those beliefs are based on personal experience. The fact you experienced something doesn't mean anyone else ever has though. Your experience will have been shaped by your background, your expectation, your understanding and how you felt at that particular time. It's a very subjective thing. Other beliefs you hold will be based on what you've been told. The person doing the telling and your capacity to accept their version of that story will shape your belief. So something a close friend or family member tells you will probably hold more value to you than something from a complete stranger for example. You may chose to trust a certain politician, or journalist, or specific news organisation but not another. You may chose to trust the police or you might be hugely distrustful of the police depending on your own experiences with them. You might trust your boss with your life or you might think they are someone to be watched carefully and analyse everything they say for an agenda. I've only ever knowingly met one person who posts on this forum. The rest of you are all strangers to me and me to you. As such over time you form a view of the person behind the posts, you begin to attach more or less significance to what they post. You perhaps value their contribution on certain subjects more than others. Whatever your views most of us probably put more 'value' on what Bluedell and Forlan's Sister have to say on financial matters for example because over time they've demonstrated an insight and understanding of those matters. Likewise posters like Frankie, Calsot and Andy Steel are articulate contributors to the culture surrounding the club, I've learned to appreciate what they say on those matters. Who among us doesn't value Elfideldo's take on our youth's? I've never at any point asked Elfideldo to prove his credentials though, to explain why I should believe what he writes. I've not asked Frankie to show me his sociology degree (Andy posts his on Facebook every couple of weeks mind!!:-)) or Bluedell or Forlan to invite me into their Chartered Accountancy practice and prove to me their credentials. I'm able to make my own mind up on who they are and what they say based on the ridiculous amount of time I misspend reading about Rangers on forums. So here's the thing. I doubt anyone is going to publicly post what they've heard on this subject. Even if they did I very much doubt they could prove it, it would probably be second hand information anyway. Even those with first hand experience would only be able to give you anecdotal evidence, and they'd be insane to do that on a public forum like this. So you choose what value you put on the posts that are wary of our newest director based on your own experience of that poster. To ask for more information is pointless, you won't get it, and even if you did it's unlikely to be empiric. Some are vary wary, concerned even. I certainly am, don't ask me why though because I've no intention of posting it. What I would say is this. Aside from the 'other stuff' what does this man bring to the board? What experience does he have? Has he run a large sports organisation before? Has he experience of dealing with the complexities of 'the city of London'? Does he have insight into football governance, perhaps experience of the SFA or UEFA? Is he a CA or a lawyer perhaps, does he bring those skills to the board? Perhaps he's a skilled negotiator, used to dealing with football agents and sponsors? Does he have extensive retail experience maybe? What is it he brings, how does his appointment improve our board and our club? Anyone?

Yes, it is that 'Hanson', he's the chairman. I've a mate who was involved in a wonderful if alarming 'incident' with him many years ago. My mate was a policeman in the RAF at the time. It unfortunately confirms everything you fear about the class system in this country and the connections of the powerful. I'd love to share it with you but it would probably get Gersnet closed down. It has no bearing on this story either.

No, this one hasn't been caught yet.

A great knowledge in handling cash. Apparently.

Did you used to run the Royal Bank of Scotland?

What do you mean by that? Are you talking about the drop in attendances during John Grieg's time as manager or is it some other reference that's sailing over my head?