amms
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Everything posted by amms
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Does it matter, it's country music, it's meant to get you down!
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I'm very much into gloom currently too, darker evenings and country music might be contributing too.
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Excellent Andy, as ever. I particularly enjoyed "a healthy bank balance, possibly whistling a jaunty tune (state approved, of course), set fair for the promised land."
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I'm not sure where I stand on diving. Having had a fairly typical West of Scotland childhood where wearing a t-shirt under your football top whilst playing under 10s in January saw you dropped from the side for not being manly enough I always viewed diving as God's way of showing that Britons were indeed superior to most other races, particularly continental Europeans (superiority to South and central Americans was already a given obviously). However I watched a documentary on Jurgen Klinsman that altered my view somewhat. He was at Inter Milan then, before his Spurs period where he singlehandedly rehabilitated Germany in the UK, so at this point he was still one the most loathsome footballers on the planet. His 'diving' was legendary, he was basically a cheat in the eyes of all of us on this sceptered isle. What I'd never thought about before was the basic assaults Klinsman suffered from Italian defenders the second he walked onto the pitch,he was subjected to brutality from some of the finest practitioners of this dark art. His 'diving' simply helped nullify the brutal 'cheating' he was being subjected too. I imagine Peralta comes from a similar culture. South and Central American defending owes much to the Italian school, he'll need to adapt to 'our ways' eventually however 'diving' should be viewed as a much lesser crime than say pulling a shirt, obstructing a run, leaving the boot in or arriving a fraction late on purpose.
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I don't imagine anyone else listened to Radio Scotland on Saturday late afternoon? Thought not, just me and the Tims then. So it'll surprise you to hear that it was actually really quite good. They had a panel thing with Keith Jackson, Michael Stewart (exMan U reserves, Hibs, Hearts), Stephen McManus of Motherwell and once of Celtic and Kris Boyd. Stewart actually speaks very well, he's clearly got an eye on a broadcasting career but the big surprise for me was Boyd. I'd always assumed he was your typical thick fitba player but that does him a real disservice. Even McManus, the weakest of the three players on the programme was engaging and informative. Him and Boyd spoke about players joining Rangers or Celtic from other Scottish clubs and struggling to adjust to it. The pressure of having to win every match, the jump from having been the best player at their previous club to being just another player, the media and supporter interest and intrusion into their everyday life and the heightened expectations of everyone around them comes as a big shock to most. Some deal with it quickly, some take a bit of time and some are simply not able to deal with it. Now i've no idea if Clark is struggling to adapt to life at Rangers or not, but the culture change he'll have experienced from QOTS to us will have been vast, so perhaps some time is required.
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Hello Beetle Bailey and well done you've only been here for 14 posts and have already figured out I mainly post rubbish, takes most people at least a couple of weeks before they suss me out. John McClelland was captain of Rangers and captain of Northern Ireland as well as playing at two World Cup Finals. Being made captain of a club the size of Rangers as well as his country when they had a very good team suggests several different managers recognised leadership qualities in him. It also suggests his fellow players looked to him as someone to listen too. That was why I thought he'd go on and become a good manager. Stuart McCall was never captain of his club or country. Whilst he was a selfless player I never noticed any obvious leadership qualities in his play or signs of great tactical awareness. He came across as one-of-the-boys, fond of a drink a prank and a party and the video footage of him dancing then falling off the car roof when down south, whilst endearing, didn't suggest he was someone you were going to entrust the transfer budget too. Listen, I really liked McCall as a player and I'm delighted he's gone on and proved himself a good manager, I just didn't expect it or notice any signs he'd go that way when he was a player. As you point out the players I thought would become good managers didn't so it pretty much underlines what I'd figured out a good number of years ago namely that I don't know a great deal about football.
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Ah the mysteries of football management. It's so rarely the players you expect to be good managers who turn out to be. No one would have picked Alex Ferguson as managerial material when he was a player, or indeed Walter Smith who was a low profile journeyman at best. The list of players who were great captains, spoke well and commanded respect from players, fans and media alike and yet were abysmal managers is endless. John Greig should have been our greatest manager, Sandy Jardine, Richard Gough, John McClelland, Trevor Steven all looked like managerial material when players. Who'd have thought Stuart McCall would be a good manager, or Derek McInness, or Allan Johnson? It's a counter intuitive profession that's for sure.
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Gentlemen, it's also worth remembering that MacBeth is a brilliant example of spin and PR being used to blacken the name of not just the Scottish monarchy but the entire nation. It's a perfect metaphor in many ways.
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Scottish FA fit and proper guidelines could block Dave King
amms replied to ian1964's topic in Rangers Chat
Compared to what, Zimbabwe? -
Not in the version I saw and heard, it was clearly 'Why Don't You Go Home' with some mental verses added. You don't know they'd have been successful had no one changed the song and had we only sung it against the Tims. I've no idea what your last paragraph is supposed to prove.
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'Fall into line' has a very different connotation than deal with reality. That wasn't a summary it was editorialised. They were laughed out the room by everybody when the Penny Arcade nonsense was mentioned, indeed I don't even know who mentioned it, do you? I'm sorry, I can see no evidence to back up this concern of yours.
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Scottish FA fit and proper guidelines could block Dave King
amms replied to ian1964's topic in Rangers Chat
Thank fuck someone posted that. -
I didn't say 'fall into line', don't misquote me. You can either deal with reality or you can complain that things aren't how you want them to be. Let me know how you get on with the latter because it'll give you ulcers and make you bitter. I'm sorry that's nonsense. If that's all the songs we've got and the only way we've got of creating an atmosphere we might as well give up and go home. I disagree. You've nothing at all to back that up, there is no evidence that'll happen and frankly it's preposterous. I'm sorry I totally disagree. The biggest threat to Rangers is from ourselves, we inflict far more damage to our club and our support than all the Celtic fans in world combined. Sort ourselves out and we've nothing to fear.
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The original song came from our matches, the additional verses came a short time later but the association with us was already made. Anyone who hadn't heard the 'song' and Googled it found that version. Whether we sung all the words or not the song was tainted from that point on. I agree, and had we kept it for Celtic games then I'd be defending it too. We didn't and the rest is history. I'm all for mocking the faux 'Irishness' of Celtic fans, it's absolutely fair game as far as I'm concerned. Again I agree, but that's not how it seemed over there. There was literally disbelief something they take so seriously could be used as a chant at a football match. This annoyance wasn't just from your Celtic supporting, republican friendly Irish either. Those with no interest in football or politics were appalled too, and when Governments start asking questions of other governments then the games a bogey. No way was someone from the UK or Scottish government going to 'defend' the chant when it became clear how much offence it was causing. With respect you don't know that.
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Interesting. I don't feel I'm in a 'battle', I don't feel my culture is under any threat. My culture doesn't include glorifying terrorists or razor gangs or denigrating someone who lives in Rome or Ireland. If those types of songs upset some people it's no skin off my nose because they upset me too. So i'm not sure what side of this 'battle' that puts me on then. Politicians are elected, whether you support them or not is moot, enough people do so it's counter-productive to ignore or dismiss them. I'm not sure the Catholic church has actually been all that vocal in all this, I also think you put far too much importance on its words when they are spoken. Most people aren't RC, even the ones who are seem to pay little more than lip service to most of what their church 'teaches'. To address your specific point about 'Why don't You Go Home' song. I think it was 'banter' in the context it first came from. In Glasgow and surrounds it was clearly a riposte to their faux Oirishness. But, and this is our problem, we started to sing it at every game, against Kilmarnock and Hearts and Inverness and suddenly the riposte changes meaning. Instead of mocking the green laden plastic Paddies in front of us it starts to sound like something a little more sinister when the people opposite you aren't dressed like attendees at a St Patrick's Day parade. Then the unhinged lunatic fringe in our support create verses for it which are entirely unambiguous and think recording them and posting it on You-Tube for all to see is a good idea. So that's how the narrative changes, that's how it goes from 'banter' to serious offence in a few short moves. I'd also say that in Ireland the 'famine' is an altogether more serious topic. As a nation they're not ready for joking about it or mocking it. We can argue about how healthy that is for them as a nation if you want but it's irrelevant as we need to deal with the reality of the here and now. The truth is Irish people were both horrified and perplexed that a group of Scottish football supporters would see that as a suitable topic to chant about on a weekly basis. They still view the 'famine' in the same way Armenians view Turkey's alleged genocide in WW1, it's not something to laugh about. So ultimately we've only ourselves to blame for this, had the chant been kept for Celtic matches only and no 'extra verses' created we were on solid ground.
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At the same time SA all of those things were treated with the disdain they deserved by all normal people. We'll never stop some people being obsessed with Rangers, but most of the things you mentioned were rightly ridiculed, no one took them seriously. That's a big jump from songs that denigrate someone else's culture or religion or show support for murder gangs, you can see the difference right?
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So you don't sing them yourself then? Why not?
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Eh? Why do you want to sing songs about "scumbag drug gang extortionist terrorists"? Seriously what part of your culture or heritage do they represent? How is that bowing to anyone?
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What do you base that on, is there any evidence that'll happen? I've seen this argument put forward before but it seems to be based on fear rather than anything else.
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They seemed to have a connection with the UVF and appeared on Belfast UVF gable end murals with regularity when I lived there. But who they actually are is a mystery to me.
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There does seem to be some evidence of that. I still think it's fairly clear what songs should be avoided though.
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With your dying breath, really? Is it really so difficult to accept that fashions, sensibilities, tastes and tolerances change and evolve over time. What was acceptable once can become unacceptable through time. Would you defend the singing of say the Horst Wessel song with your dying breath? What about some of the songs recorded by Johnny Rebel as recently as the 1960s? They are two examples of songs that were acceptable, enjoyed and sung by many once. But not so much today because times change. I mean if you're really looking for an example of this look at Marching Through Georgia, the song the 'Billy Boys' derives from. The sentiment is fine but the words are now unacceptable. If people feel so strongly about this then make up new songs, new expressions of their culture. Culture shouldn't be stuck in the past, it should progress. Drop the old songs and create new ones, ones that don't break the law. this shouldn't be beyond the wit of the people who want to sing them.
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Walter Smith insists Rangers need to get back to a situation where...
amms replied to ian1964's topic in Rangers Chat
I ended up reading the Hearts story next to the Smith headline on the Record backpage up thread. They brought on a player called Billy King on Saturday! Well I laughed. -
I don't think there is any trying about it, he achieved it. The man's dead over 30 years, it makes no sense that song has lasted so long. I mean there's been no shortage of Irish republicans in the intervening years to sing about if that kind of thing rocks your boat.
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As an aside why do you want to sing about Bobby Sands? I've never understood why 'we' sing about him.