amms
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Everything posted by amms
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I don't disagree with you (I watched the Arsenal match so I'll take your word for it). I've heard Rangers supporters sing songs this season I thought were long gone. There is a lack of consistency, particularly with the media. Did you make a report, if not would you?
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And who is it that's 'tarring' the club and it's support week in and week out?
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The figures show that there is clearly not any widespread police action against football fans, if there was you'd expect significantly higher numbers of arrests. I don't think the police would be in the slightest interested if a section of our support didn't insist that they've a right to sing about the UVF whenever they feel like it. I also think you overplay the time and money that is actually spent on this 'problem'. I'm not sure anyone has disagreed with the premise that the police could find better things to do with their time either.
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Those figures are for the year from March 2012. What I'm saying is the perception of persecution is far greater than the reality. The numbers of people actually being arrested are tiny. They don't bear out the premise that we're being singled out for special treatment by the police.
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Okay. In the 12 months to March 2013 a grand total of 268 people were charged under the Offensive behaviour At Football act, of those 82% got to court so something like 220 people. Now even if all of them were Rangers supporters (and they weren't, we know this) and we look only at home matches (and some were away games but they are harder to count) and lets say Rangers average attendance was 45,000 in that period with an average of say 20 home matches. That's a total of 900,000 people attending Ibrox during that period, the vast majority of who are Rangers supporters. 268 people out of 900,000 is something like 0.002% (someone who can count can figure it out). It's tiny, a minuscule number of people. So this targeting, this bias, this focus that's apparently being shown to us is simply not apparent in the actual numbers. If we are coming in for special treatment, if the efforts of the establishment are being brought down on us why aren't more of us being arrested? You are far more likely to be charged with a religiously aggravated crime in the street or in your home than you are at a football match. The problem here is perception and increasingly our perception isn't based in reality. So when Focus tell us (and I've heard many calls for someone to tell us what's acceptable) that songs mentioning or clearly about the UVF and their associated organisations aren't acceptable why is this difficult to accept? We're clearly not being discriminated against in anything like a tangible way.
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If they are only going after Rangers fans then why are so many non-Rangers fans charged? It's a misconception is what I'm saying, the figures don't bear it out. Celtic fans have been charged over singing 'IRA' songs, Celtic as a club have made public statements asking their support to stop singing certain songs. Sections of their support do come under scrutiny from the authorities. But in the end this isn't about Celtic, it's about us. Let them worry about what they think is acceptable. Songs about the YCV and the UVF should have no place in our repertoire, it's astonishing we're even having this debate in 2013. Society has moved on yet we, as it often appears, are lagging behind. Why is that, why aren't we more switched on, more involved and more in touch? That's what this debate should be about, not whether a section of our support can sing about murder gangs simply because they think others are allowed to sing about different murder gangs.
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The average man looks at songs about 'joining the YCV' and with lines about 'pistols and guns' and understands these to be about murder gangs who now murder people because they are involved in organised crime. The last set of figures I saw published regarding religiously aggravated crimes in Scotland suggested that 'anti-Protestant' 'crimes' were over represented if measured against the population as a whole. Indeed Jewish people were the most likely group to suffer from religiously aggravated crime in Scotland. So this suggestion that somehow Rangers supporters are singled out doesn't seem to be borne out in the figures. To suggest there is an element of politics at play here is to state the obvious, that's what politicians do. But this head-in-the-sand why-always-us cry that goes up whenever we discuss this topic is wearisome. As far as I know no one else sings about the UVF or No Pope of Rome, so, you know, figure it out. On that point earlier this year Partick Thistle, on the advice of the police, asked their fans to stop singing a song which contained the lines 'fuck the pope and fuck the queen'. So, once again, not always us.
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Fair enough. A section of our support remain completely out of touch with the prevailing views in the country. That lack of self awareness means 'we' remain 'shocked' when songs the vast majority of the population find distasteful and feel are clearly about terrorists eventually get banned. Posters blame 'The SNP' like they were installed in government following a coup instead of democratically elected or 'political correctness' like it's somehow strange people find these songs offensive. Is it the best use of police time? No, I don't think so. Is it a surprise? No, this has been coming for years. Does it concern me? No, I've no time for songs about murder gangs, no matter how some might chose to dress them up.
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There were over 135 different regiments of the British Army involved in WW1. If this is all about commemorating the 'Great War' why don't we sing about any of the other regiments? Where's the song about the Highland Light Infantry, or the Scots Guards?
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TOM ENGLISH - Brian Stockbridge improves home security
amms replied to ian1964's topic in Rangers Chat
Thanks for the feedback guys. It surprises me more isn't known about King. I understand some want to keep a low profile, but buying a stake in Rangers isn't the way to do that I'd have thought. I'm not convinced he was a victim of anything with regards his tax case. The little I've read on the case suggests he was doing some serious 'avoidance', but it's far too complicated for me to understand. I don't doubt he's a bluenose and loves the club, it's the other facets of the man I'm curious about. -
TOM ENGLISH - Brian Stockbridge improves home security
amms replied to ian1964's topic in Rangers Chat
This seems as good a thread as any to ask about King. So are most of us fairly comfortable with him and his possible re-involvement with Rangers? I've been thinking about what I actually know about Dave King and realising it isn't actually very much. I've heard the rags to riches story, boy from Castlemilk becomes gazillionaire. I know he invested a substantial amount in Rangers before and lost it all. I know he lives in South Africa. I know he was under investigation, charged and found guilty by SA tax authorities. I know he paid an eye-watering sum as a fine to the SA taxman. What I don't know is just how much of all that is true, does anyone else? How did he make his money? The figures I hear quoted for his tax fine are so astronomical as to actually worry me. Who has that kind of money available to pay fines? I've known some seriously wealthy people but none of them had that kind of money available, it was all tied up in businesses, property, etc. How did he become that rich? If he did actually give SDM £20 mil or so for basically a seat on the board and not a not else I find myself worrying about just how astute he is. Now SDM was a master salesman and King wasn't the only guy to hand over serious money for fuck all back, but still. So why don't we know more about King, if he's a Glasgow boy someone must know him or his mum/brother/next door neighbour? I've read various South African business articles and they don't paint his business conduct in a great light, all off-shore tax havens and government employees on retainers. At the same time I accept that I'm no business expert in this country far less South Africa. So who does know, who can put my mind at rest regarding King? -
Terry Butcher was not only a world class player but his signing was the single biggest in Rangers history in my opinion. Butcher joined us the summer of the Mexico World Cup where Butcher was a stand out, it took the genius of Maradona to put a good England side out. Butcher was chosen for the team of the tournament and was at the height of his career when he joined us. The chance of Rangers signing a leading Scottish international far less an English one was unlikely at the time, the signing of Butcher was a statement of intent which no one could ignore. Butcher's first season with Rangers was immaculate, he was not only an superb player but his presence at the club was huge. I still believe had he not broken his leg Celtic would not have won the league in 88 and the course of history been very different. For me World Class is an epithet applied to players to who could play at the top of their profession, be it in the club game or international football. I think Gough showed at the Swedish Euro Championships he was more than capable at that level. There's no debate about Laudrup for me, he was easily world class. Look at his career both at club and international level, whether his brother was better or not is irrelevant, he was easily good enough.
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Jeez this is a depressing thread. Some of our support and indeed some of our posters need to take a long, good look at themselves and how they address, discuss and comment on other Rangers supporters. I wouldn't describe Tims the way some of us describe our fellow supporters.
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No no Craig, politics are fine as long as STB agrees with them. Anything else simply doesn't show proper support or atmosphere or something, it's hard to keep up.
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Hey, what happened to your 'football for football matches only' mantra from yesterday? It's hard to keep up at times.
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So are soldiers more deserving of 'a day' than nurses then? I'm confused because I'd have thought that at least the 2nd para if RPBs post was something everyone would support.
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It's all accurate though. Whyte is bright and successful if success is measured in how much money he makes for himself. He takes a very strategic view of business and businesses, and indeed does play his cards close to his chest. I'd also say his spoken plan for Rangers at the beginning fits exactly to what AJ said. it became clear a short time later he'd other less public plans.
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I'm really enjoying all these new posters we've had in the last few days. It's so refreshing to see logic challenged constantly and from every angle. Well I say every angle but you know what I mean. Anyway this forum needs a thread about Paul Murray I feel that's what's missing from this debate.
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So what, so was Winston Churchill.
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Aha, football games are for football only when it suits you. Songs of protest create just as good an atmosphere.
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That's ironic considering your stance on some 'songs' recently. Support takes many forms - "To keep from weakening or failing" is its dictionary definition, it seems quite fitting don't you think.
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There are a good number of people out there who could do the job of CEO of Rangers well. Whether you thought Mather was doing a good job or not he's hardly irreplaceable. He's chosen to resign, we have to assume its his decision, as such we should respect it and wish him well. He's done okay out of his short time at Rangers whatever difficulties he's experienced he's considerably better off than he was before he joined us so we shouldn't feel he's been hard done by. The only people who could realistically have pressured Mather to leave are his fellow board members, no one outside of the club could have brought this about no matter how hard they tried. So he's either decided the role isn't for him and decided to leave or the rest of the board have decided he should leave, lets stop looking to blame or credit others with it.
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Neither scenario appeals much it must be said. However I've no idea, perhaps both, maybe she was sitting in her office in the nude. Anyway, I feel bad making fun of Ms Sturgeon, I imagine some lunatic staring at you through a window for an extended period is fairly unnerving, even for someone in the public eye. The headline is still a little comical mind.
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Arrested? he should be awarded some kind of medal for staring at Sturgeon.
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Haha! I love the thought of sticking Leonard Cohen on, I'd join your bus just to see the reactions of the other passengers.