amms
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Everything posted by amms
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I do. I spent three years in Northern Ireland and I came to the conclusion that 'loyalism' does the working class people of the Province only harm. For a start I'm unsure who their loyalty is too. If it is the British state then that 'loyalty' certainly isn't reciprocated. Aside from these outward celebrations of poverty, poor schools and economic desolation 'loyalism' also seems to prevent genuine discourse on how to improve the lot of the people of Northern Ireland. I'd prefer we dropped the UVF stuff ourselves before we are forced too by a society who grows tired of our refusal to accept the march of time, that's why I join these threads. I do think the UVF stuff will get us into trouble and will be used by our enemies to harm us, I'd rather we didn't allow that to happen. I've heard posters like Ryan (that's a right Tim sounding name btw...) say it's all about WW1 before but everyone knows that's bollocks and nobody outside our support will give that the time of day. Beyond that Barca I've read your post a few times now and I'm not really sure what you believe in.
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Hah, like McGills is the Easedale's only 'business'.
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That's an interesting take on it. The overwhelming majority of Rangers 'global' support is made up of ex-pats, there are exceptions but they are just that. That's the case for all clubs outside of Real, Barca, Juve, Milan, Man U, Liverpool and Bayern. In recent times you might be able to add Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal to that list but not many more. Our 'global support is diaspora based, not kids in China playing FIFA and thinking 'I like the sound of this YCV those guys sing about, coupled with Ian Black and they're the side for me'. I also feel you are conflating 'removing the religious element' with singing songs glorifying murder gangs. I think Rangers will remain the 'Protestant' club in Glasgow, mainly by default because Celtic will retain the 'Catholic' support. I've no issue with that, AC Milan remain the 'left wing' club in Milan despite being owned by right wing Berlusconi. My main problem is this belief that only by singing about Northern Ireland and in particular murderers there are we able to display this. Where's your pride in the enlightenment or the covenanters? I see no display of 'Protestantism' at Ibrox, rather a narrow, angry display of what's broadly called 'Loyalism' of the Northern Irish kind. I've a number of issues with 'loyalism'; it is outdated, it's not progressive in anyway, it makes no sense (who is this loyalty too exactly and more importantly why?) and its out of step with the world around it. That we'd choose it of all 'isms' to cling too makes no sense to me. Playing up this 'loyalist team' thing won't garner us anymore supporters worldwide, producing world class footballers will though. Success is what grows your fanbase, nothing else. You clearly no longer live here, you've made another part of the world your home. I'm curious, what is about loyalism that you like, you've seen the world for it is, you know that decency, loyalty, kindness, common-sense aren't limited to one race or religion. Why do you still see it as a virtue?
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I can't speak for Calgacus but it's certainly what keeps me at Rangers. The loyalist stuff drives me away frankly. Why change now is an interesting question. Times change Barca, people grow older, wiser, more rounded. Things that matter when you're young no longer matter 20 years later. Things that made you angry once now make you shrug your shoulders. Things that you barely thought about once now you care for passionately, life doesn't stand still, everything changes, evolves and wishing it wasn't so will simply make you bitter and unhappy. The loyalist songs will go, I've no doubts about that. They'll either go because we as a support will choose to drop them, either because we recognise how ridiculous they are or because the club asks us too. If we don't then I believe society will force us too, legislation and the police will enforce it. There is no appetite for it now in most of Scotland. Where once it was tacitly tolerated it is now openly disparaged by most 'Protestants' here, society has little tolerance for religiously motivated politics, that's not going to change in the foreseeable future either. Support for 'orangism' is declining every year, it's an anachronism now. So to answer your 'why change now' question as simply as I can, because that's the way the the society we live in is going, and those who don't evolve to change die out.
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Rangers Union of Fans meeting statement regarding London meetings
amms replied to j1mgg's topic in Rangers Chat
Once again the stakes are upped. I do wonder if the current board are re-elected whether we'll see a drop in attendances and merchandise spend. Whilst some will choose to do this as an act of protest I also think a good number will simply drift away in disgust. The realisation that we remain powerless and ignored and that a section of our support will defend the indefensible no matter what will be too much for some. Unfortunately looking at the history of clubs who have gone through similar to us (Leeds, Portsmouth, Coventry, Luton) it suggests it will get worse before it gets better at boardroom level. At what cost I wonder. -
Your link in your previous post isn't working for me. I wouldn't get too hung up by what RyanGers193 is posting, it's fairly clear from this thread he's not thought his views through or is in denial about reality. Either way he's far from being representative of our support at large as you rightly point out. You make some very good points.
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Nothing will beat running out for Rangers when we’re back in the top flight
amms replied to ian1964's topic in Rangers Chat
That's what you want to hear all 19 year olds say. Rapidly becoming my current favourite player. -
No he wasn't. He was simply a Catholic who had to travel through a Loyalist area to get to his work, he'd no connection to Republicanism. The UVF harboured and celebrated some of the most twisted and evil men these islands have ever produced.
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Yeah well, so 'up to our knees in ****** blood' literal too? If people want to sing about the UVF they should at least be honest about their reasons.
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He's not singing about WW1. Why would someone want to sing about a futile imperial stalemate that happened nearly 100 years ago?
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Well I've no interest in people who deny the truth but I find myself reading your ridiculous posts. I think you are liar anyway, you know fine well what the UVF were and just don't want to admit it in public. Anyway, educate yourself, here's what Martin Dillon wrote about the UVF's murder of Thomas Madden - "Somewhere between his lodgings and his place of work he was apprehended by his killers, most likely in the vicinity of the Crumlin Road. He was taken to a lock-up garage in Louisa Street off the Oldpark Road. Between the hours of 10:00 P.M. and 4:00 A.M. he was tortured. He was suspended by a rope from a wooden beam and stripped of his clothing. A knife was used on his body much in the manner a sculptor would chip away at a piece of wood or stone. Long cuts were made down his back and thighs and in all there were 147 stab wounds on his body. This was the work of a sadist, and the pathologist’s report indicates that it was the work of one man. Not one of the wounds would have been likely to cause death but Thomas Madden must have lost consciousness frequently and been revived. Unlike Arthurs, his death did not occur from a bullet wound but from gradual strangulation from a slowly tightening noose. A woman in the vicinity of Louisa Street later revealed that at 4:00 A.M. she heard a man screaming, “Kill me. Kill me”. ‘The body was dragged one hundred yards by the killers, lifted to a height of six feet and thrown over a metal gate into a shop doorway. The manner of Madden's demise was similar to that of Arthurs and the wounds suggested the use in each killing of a nine-inch double-bladed knife. There was undoubtedly a lot of blood spilled in both instances, and this was to become a feature of killings by the Shankill Butchers, and particularly by Lenny Murphy." Think on that the next time you're singing your song.
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Here's the thing, twist and turn all you want, claim the UVF were formed to find homes for orphaned kittens for all I care, none of it changes what they were. Did you look up Lenny Murphy as I suggested? I take issue with your claim that most out 'match going support' agree with you, whatever the fuck it is you are claiming, you're being very reticent to make any public claims, although I can understand why.
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I'm no fan of the Vanguard Bears but is it now illegal to post photos of dead Celtic supporters? It's distasteful and pretty odd but it doesn't sound like a police matter.
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My mistake then, apologies. Why, both claim 'innocent' roots but turned into murderous monsters. What proof have you that most Rangers fans agree with you? Right, odd stance for an army division.
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Yes you were, stop being mendacious. What with copying and pasting one-eyed nonsense from RangersMedia and now mounting a defence of murder gangs you're really an addition to this forum. Well done. The Klu Klux Klan were originally formed as a social club for Confederate soldiers, are you going to mount a defence for them too? Go and read about Lenny Murphy and then come on and tell us the UVF weren't a sectarian murder gang.
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You're right. If you don't include the murders, attempted murders, other acts of violence and ideology then nothing really.
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Rangers Union of Fans meeting statement regarding London meetings
amms replied to j1mgg's topic in Rangers Chat
It's astonishing how naive your post is. We were powerless to stop the last two owners from fucking the club up yet you think we'll be able to prevent it happening again. People can keep an eye on the board all they want but we're powerless to influence it. Even when clear wrong doing is pointed out some supporters refuse to see it. Look back just a couple of years, we'd some fairly influential fans groups backing Craig Whyte to the hilt right up too the very end. There is no evidence to suggest that can't happen again, too many people are worried about personalities rather than the facts that are staring them in the face. -
Interesting post Andy. I was reading at the weekend that the age demographics in match attendance has changed in the last 20 years. It's got considerably older now with far fewer younger supporters attending matches now compared to the 70s and 80s. This has apparently made crowds quieter but quicker to criticise their team. I'd always put the singing of certain songs down to the folly of youth, perhaps not.
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Thank you. For some reason I expect them to be better than Scottish sounding players. It's ridiculous I know.
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Yes, but it's an interesting compromise.
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I doubt there's a Rangers fan alive who hasn't belted out one of those songs at one time, I certainly did. But the point here isn't whether we should or shouldn't sing them it's that the Union bears, by singing them, invite comparison to the Green Brigade.
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Go on then, in what possible 'context' is singing about the UVF acceptable?
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In that neither have anything to do with football, don't reflect the views of all their support and make the people who created and displayed them look like juvenile fools, then yes, I suppose I am.
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Of course the Nuo Camp is a 'new' stadium as the name suggests, Barcelona only moved their in the late 1950s after several decades at Les Corts. The modernising of a ground is something all clubs need to do, whether it can be done without a move isn't important from a historical perspective. I really like what Atletic Bilbao have done with their ground. San Mames holds a significant place in Basque culture and and so a move was controversial, so they moved 'outside' keeping one side of the old stadium in the new one. Without looking it up which British club do you think Barcelona got to play their inaugural match against to open Les Corts in the 1920s?
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As far as I know the Union Bears and the Blue Order haven't been involved in the type of wanton vandalism seen at Fir Park and Dens Park recently, whereas the Green Brigade have and seem to have have an old school hooligan element. But I have to agree that in terms of songs I can see no discernible difference between one Irish murder group and another. Likewise both the Union Bears and the Green Brigade have made 'political' points through banners and songs, points that aren't reflective of each club's overall support. Until you no longer hear murder gang songs from our support then I'm not sure we can take the moral high ground here.